SPEAKER_00 0:04

You're listening to the Hanging with the AD podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and lessons learned through leadership. Now, here are your hosts, Josh Matthews and Don Baker.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Today's guest is Jake Von Scheer. Jake serves as the director of athletic enrichment at the McClay School in Tallahassee, Florida, a career educator and a certified master athletic administrator with over 35 years of success as a teacher, head coach, and AD. Jake left us with some great insight and ideas that I know you will want to implement into your programs as soon as possible. Let's jump in and get to know Mr. Jake Von Sher.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Jake, we're so glad to have you joining Don and I today for this episode of Hanging with the AD. Thanks for taking time to join us.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Hey, thanks a lot for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

For our listeners, Jake Van Sheer serves as the Director of Athletic Enrichment at the McClay School in Tallahassee, Florida. He has been in this role leading the McClay athletic programs since 2016. But I know he's traveled back and forth across the country a couple times. I'm going to stop right there, though, and let Jake tell us a little bit more about his journey through the world of athletics. Jake, we like to start the show, as I think you know, with a short bio of our guest. We call it the back of the baseball card bio. So if you could just share with us and our listeners what the back of Jake Van Stier's baseball card would look like.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

I was born and raised in the great state of Oregon. Uh, you know, grew up uh, you know, playing sports, uh, high school, uh, played small college, uh, football and track, you know, wanted to uh play at the next level, but injuries and uh and a lack of talent uh got in the way of that. So um did the next best thing, you know, stayed involved in sports as uh as a teacher and coach. Uh had some great role models uh growing up as teacher coaches and uh was very blessed to work with some uh just some truly great head coaches and ADs as I was starting my career off. You know, for whatever reason, very goal-oriented, you know, wanted to be a head football coach and uh was an assistant coach, uh, you know, worked hard, had an opportunity to become a coordinator, you know, worked hard. And my goal is to be a head football coach by the time I was 30. You know, and I was very lucky to uh get an opportunity to be a head coach when I was 24 years old. And uh just kind of bounced around uh the state of Oregon. Uh small school had some success, medium school had some success. Uh, and then uh took a little bit of a right turn, just got it in my head I wanted to be a college coach and uh was fortunate enough to coach uh collegiately uh at the junior college level in Oregon for five years. Uh my wife, who's also uh a career teacher and coach, cross-country in track. Again, long story short, we uh were both offered the opportunity to teach and coach at the same school uh in Missouri, uh Division II school, moved our family across country, uh, and just had a great time and kind of got on a coaching carousel, a college coaching carousel that took us from Missouri to Vermont, uh to North Florida, uh out to San Jose, California. And uh at about that time we were trying to figure out we had three kids, and where do we want them to spend their high school years and make those lifelong friendships and relationships, go to a good school, have an opportunity to do the things that we did. And uh again, we um I were very fortunate to find a school in South Florida that was looking for an AD, a head football coach, a girls cross-country coach, a P teacher. And so it just kind of fell into place. And so uh we spent pretty much the last 20 years in the state of Florida at a couple of different schools. And um I think my niche, uh having done big school, small school, college, you name it, uh, I think my niche is at that smaller school where I think you just really build those relationships, not just with the kids on your team, but with all the kids in the school. And uh I guess that's probably two baseball cards and a half of a but uh hopefully that'll paint a little bit of a picture of uh you know what I've done over the past, you know, this is year 40 for me. I've only got another 10, 15 good years left in me, and that's gonna be downhill.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Wow, year 40, and you still got 15 more. That's uh that's impressive. Good deal. Hey, I I was gonna ask you a question that we ask everyone, but before we get there, you just mentioned something. How do you find and know your niche? When does that happen? How does that happen?

SPEAKER_04 4:46

Oh gosh. Uh I just um we just had dinner uh the other night with uh one of our McClay coaches and his wife, uh, who's you know a very dear friend now, and um he said, Where's been what has your um uh favorite stop been? And it was it was hard to put a finger on it because I I can look back at really every single stop except one, uh, and it was just great. You know, my first three head coaching jobs were just one-year jobs. Uh the first one was in Central Oregon, small school, great school. It was near my hometown. But uh it was in the middle of wheat country, and they had a bad wheat crop that year, so three teachers you know got uh rift, uh reduction in force, and I was one of them. Uh landed at a school on the Oregon coast, great school, great tradition, and had a wonderful time there. Our daughter was born in that town, uh, but it was on the um uh you know the fishing industry. And at that time, uh, you know, the that industry was uh having some hard times. So uh I think four teachers got ripped, so I was gone. Uh the next stop was um a little bit further down the coast, and again, great time. Our son was born down there. Still have great friends. Um, my quarterback runs the insurance agency in that town now. We were on Facebook together, but it was a timber country, and uh the timber industry in Oregon at that time was going south. But uh again, it's all those experiences I I think that add up to where you think you you fit best. I consider myself just so very uh you know, blessed, lucky, whatever you want to call it, uh, that I've had uh a variety of experiences that uh have allowed me to experience some success. Uh I was just telling somebody that I think the one thing I've learned in all this time is uh surround yourself with good people. You know, at the top of the list for being able to have good people around me, and people will say, Hey Jake, how's it going? And they know what I'm gonna say. Uh I say, Hey, I'm living the dream, right? Living the dream of McLay. And it's true. Uh I I get paid to do this. So I guess to get back to your original question, how do you find your niche? Hopefully that niche finds you, and you just see that it's that it's a good fit. Uh, you get a chance to do what you love to do.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

That's good. I know there's a lot of people out there probably listening and they're trying to find that niche, so that's good. Uh, Jake, as you know, our podcast is primarily focused on the high school athletic administrator. Uh, you have that college experience, and we've had college guys on here, and hopefully we have college leaders and middle school athletic directors and leaders of all genres, leaders of all industry listening. Getting back to that high school area that you and I and Don live in. What did your high school years look like? What led you to athletics and uh what were you involved with?

SPEAKER_04 7:40

For me, it was sports. You know, I just loved it growing up. I wasn't uh I I blossomed, I think, as an athlete later in high school, and then I think more so in college. That was back in the day when almost everybody did three sports. You you transitioned uh with the seasons. Uh, and that's something I've tried to share with my coaches and parents and kids. All three of our kids did three sports in high school, and all three ended up competing at the college level, too. So it didn't seem to hurt them. I think the other reason or another compelling factor in my sports, uh, love of sports, was my hatred uh of hard work. Uh my dad was a contract, and uh my brothers and I, we worked for him on weekends and in summers, pretty much from middle school, I mean, even into college years, you know, I'd come home from college and uh I'd need to make some money. Uh, and my dad was uh uh he was a taskmaster, but at the same time, and I I I realized this, you know, much later, he loved his job like I loved teaching and coaching. I mean, he you would ask him, you know, you know, hey Gene, how's it going? I I I don't think he would have said those words, but the meaning would have come through. You know, he was living the dream doing what he did. Uh he loved it from and he did everything. He was a general contractor, but he planned it. Uh, I remember sitting at his desk with blueprints. Um, you know, he he was a master craftsman uh as a contractor, and I and I think I learned and earned his work ethic, which I applied in a different direction, but also um just the love of his job. And I and I remember and I shared this with my students, coaches, and I shared this with my own kids. Uh he told me I I think I was in the ninth grade and I was griping about something, you know, probably having to go to work the next day. But uh, I remember he said, you know, Jake, the secret to enjoying life is finding something that you like to do, and then convincing somebody else to pay you to do that. And he he had that in his job, and it took me a long time to see that, but uh it was very true. And I don't hear it too much anymore. I remember as a younger teacher, I would hear in the faculty room, uh, you know, teachers gripe about, oh, this kid or this, or you know, just complaining about teaching. And I just remember thinking to myself, well, why don't you go do something else? You know, you're not helping these kids. And at that time, I was closer to the kids' age than some of the uh teachers I was teaching with. But again, like I said, in 40 years uh of doing this, I can really only think of one school, one situation where at the end of the year I was glad to be leaving that school. Every other one, it's been, like I said, uh an economic thing or another opportunity opening up for me.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

You know, Jake, I think we don't necessarily learn from our experiences. We we learn from reflecting on those experiences. And you have retweeted your fondness for the book, The Champion's Comeback. And the byline on the cover of that book states how great athletes recover, reflect, and reignite. An author that I really like is Sam Chan. Uh he has a phrase that we need to learn, unlearn, and relearn. Uh, in other words, always having that growth mindset. What aspects of the champion's comeback do you feel athletic administrators can take and use as they lead their athletic departments?

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Well, I think you just said it right there, you know, the the learning and the relearning. And uh they say, you know, experience is the best teacher. A few jobs ago, you know, I was uh hired as the athletic director at a at a school, grade school, but I remember the head of school telling me the department that you're inheriting, it's the Wild West. You know, they need uh they need a strong hand, and you know, that my reputation as an AD was was kind of you know rebuilding, resurrecting uh programs, and as a football coach too. And looking back at the way I approached that particular task and those coaches, I came on way too strong. You know, I I knew what was right and I knew what they were doing wrong, but I really didn't communicate that in the way that would yield the the most efficient, the most rewarding results for the school and for the coaches. And it it took me, and I was there for a number of years, and and again, we we did some great things to that school, and um um I I think overall it it was uh it was a good experience, but it wasn't a great experience. Uh I as great as it could have been. Um when I came into McLay, it was a completely different situation from an athletic success standpoint. They had had tremendous success their entire school's career, but they did the the staff needed a little direction and uh they wanted some direction, and it's not a right, wrong, good, or bad. It's just you know a different way of leading. But uh uh I remember telling myself, you know, I'm going to do it better this time. And um, again, the people we had dinner with last night, the coach was actually telling his wife, you know, remember what did I ever tell you what Jake did that first meeting? I just met with every single coach and had him come in the office, introduce myself, and I just said, Hey, I know you've done a great job here. What I want to do is just ask you one question. How can I make your job more fun? You know, what can I take off your place so you can enjoy coaching working with kids? And it was just, I don't say it was night and day, but it was almost night and day, as far as how they felt and how I felt about the way they felt, uh, and just created a great working relationship. You know, there's there's still you know, road bumps, you know, Coach X or Coach Y, you know, hey, I really need you to do this. Hey, I told you to do this. If you don't do this, you know, we're gonna be having a different conversation. But overall, uh, it was completely different. And it's uh and I attribute that to knowing that, you know, hey, I probably didn't do things the best way at this other stop. I'm gonna make sure I do things the right way at this one.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

That's good stuff. Jake, I saw on Twitter where you had tweeted a quote from an article where it stated, we coach attitude, body language, and responsibility more than actual strength and conditioning. I'd like to dive into that topic for a bit and ask you what was it about that quote that drew you to it? And secondly, what have you and your staff put in place to focus on things like attitude, body language, responsibility, more what I would call real-world character traits as opposed to elements of the athletic world like strength and conditioning?

SPEAKER_04 14:21

I I guess what jumped out at me at that one quote was I guess maybe two things, and I'll go in reverse. You know, this the skill, the the techniques, the sports-specific stuff, uh, and and this is a severe overgeneralization. Okay, anybody can coach that. Okay, anybody can you know read a book on the techniques and things like that. And again, that's a tremendous overgeneralization. You know, you need to know what the heck you're doing in there. But I think those intangibles, you know, those attitudes, why, you know, a kid, a 15-year-old, 16-year-old kid, why should I be dedicated? You know, why should I be committed? You know, it it takes a real coach to develop those intangibles that uh, and again, ever just about everything that I say or or tweet or do, it's not original. Uh, it's stuff I've heard or read, and and you can say I've stolen it or borrowed it. But someone told me, and I use it all the time with our coaches, anybody can coach that AEU team, that all-star team, that you know, group of talented kids. Okay, I need somebody that's going to develop talent. I I need somebody that's going to take that kid that, you know, whatever you want to say, can't walk and chew gum at the same time. And at a small school, oftentimes those are kids that are playing for you. And so from a football standpoint, we know the other team is looking at our team just like we're looking at their team. And uh we say, okay, you know, um, you know, that's a kid there, that's a kid that we could beat. We want to be able to coach that kid so that he's not a liability, that he might not win a game for us, but by coaching his attitude up, by getting him committed and dedicated and willing to, you know, literally lay his body on the line against a bigger kid, we can make that kid or help that kid not lose a game for us. Chuck Knoll, I'm a big Steeler fan, uh, years ago, I saw his quote. He said, and he probably stole it from somebody else. Uh he says, most games are lost, not won. And so I tell the coaches, hey, let's not lose the games. If the other team's bigger, faster, stronger, if the refs are against us that day, you know, we can't control those things. But let's try not to lose the game. You know, let's coach Billy. Let's not just look at our three superstars. Uh, let's coach the other 29 kids on the team so that, you know, hey, we might not win, but they're we're also gonna help make sure that they don't lose the game for us. So that those intangibles, you know, the the attitude, the motivation, the commitment, sacrifice. Uh, and I remember as a young kid having coaches, you know, telling me, you know, hey, you know, I don't like your attitude, Jake. Uh, and they were right, you know, on that day I probably had a crappy attitude. And so as a football coach, you know, my um my pendulum swings very severely. Okay. I I I'll be a motivated son of a gun one moment, but if I see a kid that uh or a coach that's um, you know, maybe not being positive with a teammate or not coaching a positive way, I'm gonna call their butt out right away and um and make sure that you know they their attitude gets changed.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Yeah, I guess Ken Duke down there in Orlando doing the 3D coach stuff uh down the road from where you're at is uh on those same lines of coaching the heart and then coaching the mind and getting to the 3D uh outside that first D. So that's also that's that's really good stuff. So you mentioned uh you have uh almost 40 years in teaching, coaching, and athletic administration. Based on our account, looking at your LinkedIn profile, your first position might have been in athletic administration in 1997, I think. But in those past 20 plus years in athletic administration, I know you mentioned a lot of teaching and coaching before that, but during this 20 years in athletic administration, what major things have you seen change and what things have stayed the same as far as how the job is done?

SPEAKER_04 18:29

I I guess in a couple of areas, just in in athletics in general, you know, I I think uh the big change in the the safety uh and and maybe the the training of you know student athletes. Uh I I I remember in high school, um, you know, we didn't get water and you know nobody died. Uh but I think everyone would agree it's a good idea to hydrate your student athletes because it makes them perform better. Oh, and oh, by the way, it also keeps them alive. And the the the changes in training and safety uh from an administrative standpoint, I would say the professionalism and the professional development associated with athletic administration at the state level and of course at the national level, you know, with the NIAA. For years, I mean, when I was in school and even just out of school as a young coach, there wasn't an undergraduate or even a graduate curriculum in athletic administration. You know, you were a PE major, or maybe you were a history major that ended up coaching football, and after 10 or 12 years of being the football coach, you know, you became the AD and just kind of you know learned uh on the job, or you know, you you know picked up things from other coaches or other administrators. I mean, now athletic administration is a career path even beginning at the undergrad level and sport management courses and things like that. So the old adage of if I knew then what I knew now, you know, if when I was uh when we first came to Florida in 2000, I was hired as the AD and head football coach at a small school, and I think I did a pretty good job as an athletic director. But now looking back, and I and I've said this at different speaking engagements, during those eight years, I was a head football coach who was also an AD. And when I left that school to become just the athletic director at another school, that was and it was just pure coincidence, that was when I also got involved with our state association, the Florida Interscholastic Athletic Administrator Association, and began the process of becoming a certified AD. And that's really when I say I became an athletic director. You know, it wasn't that I was, you know, I did all the scheduling, I did all the site management, all the things that you would expect of an AD uh at that school where I was at football coach, but I wasn't doing what all the things that an athletic director, whether they coach or not, should have been doing. And so I just think the the professional growth and the professional opportunities within the profession of being an AD, I think that's probably the biggest change that I can relate to from 20 years ago to now.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

One of the things you've mentioned already is some of the success you've had in your career, but we noticed you've had a significant amount of success more recently uh as you've moved into more of an AD role. If I ask you how you've been successful, I'd imagine you talk about coaches and athletes. Uh that's probably the common answer for most of us athletic directors. Any success we have gets pushed right back down to them because they're doing all the hard work. We're not going to ask you that easy of a question here. There has to be a connection as an athletic director to the coaches and athletes to lead to their success. So the question is in 40 years now, what have you done to stay connected to the modern athlete and coach as you progress to this point in your career?

SPEAKER_04 22:09

At McClay, uh, I I think it's very easy. It's I think we only have two varsity head coaches that were not here when I came on four years ago. So we've had some extremely good continuity, you know, with our coaches. And I think going back to that initial meeting that I had with every single head coach, you know, what can I do to make your job more fun? We started off on a good foot and it and it's continued. You know, fortunately, I've been able to find ways to uh in the past they weren't um uh and again it wasn't that they weren't allowed, it wasn't a negative thing, it just wasn't an awareness thing. We send every one of our head coaches uh to the um the Florida Athletic Coach Association um sport conference. You know, it's in Daytona Beach, you know, it's it's you know a beautiful little weekend hotel, but it it gives them an opportunity to get away, gives them a chance to uh um rub elbows with other coaches and and also go to some sessions. I had an AD tell me in a phone call, uh, oh geez, my coach was complaining about the baseball conference that it was just awful. And I asked my baseball coach this uh year, this is two years ago, and he goes, God, it was the greatest one I've ever been at. You know, the coaches did this and that, and so on. Yeah, I again I think our coach, we were blessed with some great coaches that uh you know appreciate those opportunities. As far as the kids, I try not to be, in their eyes, the person that, oh, here comes the athletic director, somebody's uh you know ineligible, somebody can't practice, somebody's physicals expired. So I try not to be that guy uh by doing other things. You know, I'm out of practices. Um, we really don't have hallways and McClay. It's very much an open campus. And so as I'm walking across campus, I can say, you know, hey Maddie, saw you tennis yesterday, uh, you know, how's the backhand? Or same thing with basketball or football, just try to interact with with the kids in that social, you know, non, you know, uh you did something wrong sort of thing, which which really isn't my rule. Obviously, and I know this isn't the same at every school. I uh I'm very lucky. I don't teach at McClay, I don't coach at McClay. Uh I'm the athletic director. And so what's my job? Well, part of my job is I think I need to be at every single home game and a lot of the local road games too. We have a lot of local opponents, and so the kids, and I tell the teachers this, I tell the other coaches this. Um, you know, you need to go to you know, the pick your game, you need to go to the football game, you need to go to the soccer game, you need to go to the baseball game if that's not your sport, because the kids will see you there. And they do see me there. You know, the parents they see me, you know, geez, Jake, you're at every single game. How do you do it? And I and I tell them, I said, you got it all wrong. You know, you have to be at this game to watch your kid. I'm getting paid to come to this game, you know, and I get paid to hang out with kids and coaches and parents. Well, maybe not the parents, but and and and they laugh at that. Uh, but again, they can see that I enjoy what I'm doing. So I I think like any other job, I don't know who said it, uh, you know, showing up is you know half the battle. Uh and so if you're organized, which you know, I've got that in my toolbox, you know, if you're a detailed person, I've got that in my toolbox. Uh, if you can see the big picture, which not every head coach can, if you can see that big picture, which I think I do, um, you know, that helps. You know, though those are the things that uh I think have allowed me to be successful. And as you you hit on the head, it's it's the people you work with, but making, you know, just finding a little way to make their job a little nicer. You know, the baseball coach, you know, they they always buy two hats uh for the kids, you know, keep one nice and one for practice or home and away, whatever. Uh there's your bottom three hats, you know, they didn't know they were gonna get it. Oh, wow, we got the extra hat. So just stuff like that. When you can do it, uh it's like you know, giving the the custodial staff, you know, those uh polo shirts that say, you know, McLay Athletics. Yeah, you can't put a price tag on that type of goodwill uh that a stinking shirt uh generates. And so trying to be there and and not you know be a jerk.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Uh let's put a bow on it. What do you look forward to heading into the fit, your fifth decade as an athletic leader? What gets you up in the morning?

SPEAKER_04 26:41

Well, this is um it's an exciting time uh for McClay. It's an exciting time for me. From McClay's standpoint, um, I'm moving into a new role. I've been the athletic director for four years. Uh, my new title is I'm the director of athletic enrichment. And so we have a new AD, Harold Hilliard. He's already on staff, uh, already doing a great job. He's gonna be the primary day-to-day go-to person. Uh, we also have a new assistant AD, uh, Lance Ramers, who's been our head football coach. He's gonna take on, you know, uh some of the eligibility things that I used to do. And uh we've created a new position, uh, a middle school athletic director. Um, our longtime girls' basketball coach is stepping away from coaching. He's gonna take on that role just to really try to service our middle school kids, our middle school teams, our middle school parents. I'm gonna be the director of athletic enrichment, which the duties of that are unfolding, but mostly it's gonna be to uh promote our kids, promote our teams, promote our coaches and our programs, uh, help when I can. Some of it will be on site, some will be um you know uh remotely, but uh very excited about this uh new stage in McClay's athletics. Also, I'm the president of the Florida Interschatic Athletic Administrators Association of the FIAA. Uh, but this year I was the president-elect, and the job of the president-elect is to plan our annual state conference. Well, this year our conference was planned, it was ready to go, it was going to be the best conference ever, but it got canceled due to COVID. And I was able to organize many of the speakers who were going to present at our conference, uh, and we ended up offering a series of Zoom uh workshops. Uh, we did two a day for two weeks, so we did 20 Zoom workshops, uh, not just for our ADs, but it ended up going uh a bit national. Uh, we had presenters from nine different states. We actually had an AD from Saudi Arabia log in, and we ended up reaching about uh 900 athletic directors across the country uh during that two-week period. So that's very cool. Uh as you know, I'm very active in our national organization uh as a faculty member, uh committee uh vice chair, and I'll continue to do that. And the consulting business that I uh started a couple years ago, Victory, has been uh very well received, and I've been uh planning uh speaking engagements at high schools uh around the state and around the uh the Southeast. So if it's gonna be a busy 2020, 21 for Jake.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

That's good. So can we expect this episode to get 900 listens uh because we have Jake on here?

SPEAKER_04 29:33

I I don't know about that, but I'll certainly uh do my tagging as uh as I have in the past.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

That's good. That's good stuff, Jake. Speaking of your body of work, someone suggested one time that I identify the most significant turning points in my life. We are the person explained the the products of these few, perhaps four or five decisions. In one way or another, everything we've become and everything that we've done really hinges on a few crucial choices. What have been some of those choices that you have made in your life that have led to where you are today?

SPEAKER_04 30:07

Oh my goodness. Well, outside of you know, meeting my wife, who, as I've said, is a career teacher coach, I cannot emphasize enough how important you know, coaching, as you all know, is a very challenging, very demanding job, and having a wife that understands that or a spouse that understands those demands. She has Hall of Fame credentials herself as a uh cross-country attract coach. So you know she knows the time and energy that goes into being a coach. I I think that is certainly uh the top of my list that uh the success that I've been able to enjoy uh would have been much more hard to come by without that type of support. Turning points, goodness gracious. Uh I would say probably um, you know, my college um uh track coach, his name was Jim Weber. Uh he was also an assistant football coach for us, although he wasn't my position coach. Just his demeanor, uh his encouragement, uh he was always very positive and encouraging. And at the same time, he would call me out in a second, like I said, you know, I don't like your attitude if I was getting too cocky or whatever. Uh just uh I I think in the back of my mind, I thought I might want to be a PE teacher and a coach and things like that, but just spending that time with him as a student in his classes and as an athlete, you know, I think that solidified for me, you know, what I wanted to do. Had that not been there, I could have easily gone, you know, in another direction, another discipline. I think um I've already mentioned um the gentleman at Missouri Valley College who's the ADN head football coach. Uh, I think he was probably my role model for being an athletic director. Just the way he spoke with people as a the head football coach of a hugely successful uh program, he still wore his AD hat uh and was there for you know the girls' soccer team and others. And uh maybe I didn't notice it at the time, but um it definitely those lessons sunk in. And I guess the third thing you mentioned, three, I don't know where I heard this, I don't know where I read it, but it's been a part of me and it's been something I've shared repeatedly with our coaches over the years, and it it goes like this everything we see at your school, or everything that we see at McLe, uh, when you walk on campus, when you go into the gym, when you're on the locker rooms, the practice fields, the game fields, everything we see, it's either coached or it's allowed. Which one is it for you? When you see that kid strike out and the game's over, and he throws his bat, stomps on the ground, f-bombs his way back to the dugout. That's either coached or it's allowed. And neither one of those is true of McClay or the other schools we've been at. But uh, you know, when you get back from a road trip, uh, that bus, is it picked up and cleaned, or they're they're trash all over the place. You know, it's either coached or it's allowed. And I I share that with my coaches. And you know, you ask any coach of McClay, any coach, middle school, JB varsity, uh, what's Jake's favorite saying? And I I guarantee they're gonna say, coached or loud. Uh, and and they do a wonderful job of it. And when they slip, uh or when I slip, you know, we we call each other out and we say you're right. You know, we and we go back and we take care of that. So uh I wish I knew where I got that from. Uh, but again, I I don't take credit for it, but I I I use it um um as as frequently as possible.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

That's good. You know, I think that we need to celebrate the incremental benchmarks of success or small wins, you might say. So you have encouragement, you know, to keep coming toward that ultimate even bigger success. So you're stacking those small wins to create big wins. You're very active on social media and you seem to place a priority on promoting both the small and the large successes of your students and staff. Why is that a priority for you and why should ADs and coaches do more of that?

SPEAKER_04 34:37

Well, look, I I I just I just think it's uh basic uh you know human characteristic. You you you want to encourage people to do better. You know, that attaboy or you know, that pat on the back is huge. Uh I've been uh again very blessed with with bosses, if you will, where it I knew they were my boss, but it didn't really feel like a uh a boss employee relationship because of their you know encouragement, a collegial style of leadership. You want people to want to do better. You know, one of my favorite books uh is good to great, you know, Jim Collins says you you shouldn't, as a leader, you shouldn't be trying to motivate people, you should be careful you're not demotivating them. Uh and if you have to motivate someone, you know, that might not be the best person for your organization. So again, you want people that want it to do uh a good job. And so finding ways to recognize them in a positive way, you know, to call them out every year. The FHSA has a um student athlete scholarship contest, and part of it is filling out the you know, your athletic and your high school resume. And I tell the students said, do not be humble about this. This is your only chance to brag about yourself. And so come back, and a lot of them they'll come back and where's all your awards? Where's your honors? Come on. Oh, I didn't want to say it. No, you didn't say it. So as an AD or as a head coach, you know, being able to recognize kids. I mean, coaches learned this a long time ago, you know, having a player of the week, having players of the week, uh, the hustler of the week, you know, the big hit of the week, or whatever it is, just any sort of accolade that at the same time is not you know, false praise and cheapening the award, which don't get me started on that, you know, the little league mentality and trophies for everybody. Uh it's not that at all. Right. Um it's sincere, heartfelt, uh, encouragement, praise that's earned, praise that's deserved. You know, that's uh that's what I try to do.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Jake, you mentioned earlier your consulting platform, I see it in your background there, Victory Educational Athletics. Can you talk a little bit more about what that is? Why did you create this organization? How does your organization help others improve theirs?

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Well, it got started a couple years ago. As you, you know, as you're in the profession long enough, you know, you get known, hopefully in uh in a positive way. And um, you know, we had had some success uh at schools I was at in the area of sportsmanship and had been asked to speak at different events, uh, been asked to speak at schools. You know, hey, I hear you're doing some neat stuff with your student athletes or some neat stuff with your your parent organizations, you know, can you come and uh and share? And so at one of those events, um, I had uh a dad come up and say, long story short, you know, hey, I really appreciate that. You're pretty good at this. You know, you should uh be a consultant. That's kind of how it got started, was I was doing it already. And if I can uh as I tell our coaches with their sports camps, you know, I'm I'm not against you making money, I'm not against putting uh dollars in your pocket, you work hard for it, you do a good job at your sports camp. Our school can't buy that type of uh public relations. So uh I have no problem with somebody making money. And I I guess I kind of use that same uh uh self-philosophy with victory of uh if I can do something I like to do, if I can help people, and um I I feel that I'm doing it at a reasonable cost, I feel good about that too. Talk about things that uh I think are good for high school athletics. Uh and um it's not something I'm doing full time, it's not something that uh is gonna overtake you know the other things that I do, but I've enjoyed doing it.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Jake, it's hard to do surgery on yourself. We we really weren't built to do that. Um it takes us having that competent team around us that we trust to get the job done, and then quite frankly, getting out of the way and letting them do the work. What are qualities that you look for in leaders when you go through that hiring process when you have openings on your staff?

SPEAKER_04 39:07

There's there's a lot of different ways to coach uh a team uh in football. I coached a high volume, but it wasn't, you know, I was you know just yelling and screaming for the sake of it. It was just I was excited. I loved what I was doing. Um, you know, hey, great hit, hey, great tackle. Hey, come on, I know you can do better. I've seen you do it in practice before. That's just you know how it came to me naturally. Uh, as a track coach, um, I was because it was different, I was a little more you know, quiet and controlled because of the techniques and uh uh precision involved. And everybody has their own style. So I I guess I try to uh get a feel for is there some enthusiasm, is there some passion? You know, do they love what they're doing? Are they sharing since we've only got whether it's 10 minutes or 30 minutes, whatever it is, are they showing me that they have a passion? And that could be at high volume or that could be you know more reserved, but do they love what they do? Because they're gonna need to somehow transfer that love to the kids that they're gonna be coaching and get them to love it not as much as they do, because again, I I tell our coaches they're never gonna love it as much as you do. How many how many of your high school teammates are coaches right now? There's not many, you know, they didn't love it like you love it. So don't expect the kids to love it like you do, but hey, they gotta love it. And so the the enthusiasm, the passion for their subject, the authenticity, the ability to communicate because that's what they're gonna be doing with kids, and someone that they they think like me a little bit, but they also have some different ideas because uh again, we don't want you know a room full of jakes that we I think we'd all kill each other. Uh so you know, we you want some different ideas out there, and you want people to feel free to you know express us those ideas.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

So earlier you mentioned the uh national conference is speaking in the national conference, the NIAA conference in December. I'm a member of the NIAA and have been uh through for eight years since I've been an AD and uh been to seven of the eight uh AD conferences there. Got snowed out one year, uh, but it's a great time. And uh that that's an important part of uh an organization that I'm a part of, and and obviously you're a big part of that as well. We saw that you were a member of the inaugural group of the NIAA athletic director cohort program. Can you talk a little bit about that program, what it was, and how was that experience for you?

SPEAKER_04 41:48

The program was generated in response to, as you know, the the NIAA is an accredited organization for their courses and their um certification levels. And so the CMA program has been around for I'm gonna guess close to 20 years. And as a matter of fact, we are on the verge of awarding our 1000th CMAA. It could happen this week. Um, I just sat in on one as a reviewer that was like 980 or 997 or 998, so it may already be there by by now. But a couple years ago, our accrediting organization uh asked the question well, what happens after CMAA? You know, does it expire? Do they have to renew? Do they have to take additional courses? And um, it doesn't expire, it doesn't have to be renewed. And I I think 99.999% of all CMAAs continue to take the leadership training courses after they've earned it. They're just wired that way, they're taking additional courses. Uh, and so the cohort was created not because we were mandated to, but um, out of a desire to have a specific program that it currently um was available only to CMAAs. And so when it was initially offered, they said, you know, we're gonna take you know the first 15, and I think uh there were like 300 people applied for it, and I was fortunate to be one that was selected, there were 15. It was a great experience. We met for the first time at the national conference that year. The theme was leadership, and so we had you know these monthly reflections and exercises, et cetera, on leadership that were really just tremendous. Uh it's like you know, when you go to a workshop, you know, you might go to a class, and that class is great, but when you're sitting in the restaurant talking with five other ADs or five other About things, that's where a lot of those really great ideas get generated during those informal discussions. And that's how the cohort was each month. Just the sharing and the reflections and the questions that we were able to do with an athletic director in New Hampshire or an athletic director on the West Coast or an athletic director in Florida. It was just wonderful. And our final meeting was at the National Conference up in National Harbor, so a year later. And they have since started two additional cohorts that are going on right now. And there's talk about making um cohort experiences for CAA candidates or for CAAs who have not yet achieved CMAA and for various focused subjects. So for me, uh it was just a great experience. And again, that that encouragement, you know, in a discussion at our culminating discussion at National Harbor, there's 15 in the group, and I remember three ADs specifically, uh, who I'd not known prior to the cohort, were saying, Well, I I really enjoyed Jake's comment on XYZ from April or whenever it was, and just you know, okay, wow, that's pretty cool. You know, they liked what I said. So the that affirmation that can only come from a peer and mean as much as it does. So that's our cohort experience.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Yeah, that's good. That's why we started this podcast is so we could have those cool conversations uh sitting in uh in a Zoom meeting or a Zoom discussion. So that's uh why Don and I did that. And I will say, hopefully um maybe before the end of the year, the uh your committee might see a uh CMAA candidate presenting like a podcast uh that they helped start with a partner of theirs as a project. So uh no, that's uh that that's kind of a goal of mine here here soon is to uh achieve that CMAA status.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

But uh I can tell you right now, I'm the um co-vice chair of the committee. Uh and as long as you have taken those 600 and 700 level courses, this this would be a slam dunk CMA project. Um, you would tell the story of how you started it, you know, how it's grown. There'd be um some self-evaluation. You know, I expected this to happen, but uh and it did, or I expected this to happen and it was completely opposite. But it's uh wonderful for our organization, and not organization, well, for organizations, it's wonderful for our profession. Uh, and I can tell you right now, you would not have a problem getting a thumbs up.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

Well, we appreciate that. I I've got one class that I've signed up for that I'm taking through one of the unconventional methods. So uh got to complete that and hopefully uh we'll be able to do that CMAA thing. Jake, one last question before we get to our two-minute drill, which is the fun part, but it's something else you created, and that's the competitive sportsmanship video. Can you talk a little bit about uh that competitive sportsmanship video and maybe what it is and how other athletic directors can gain access to it?

SPEAKER_04 47:32

It started at when I was at Palmer Trinity School down in Miami. I I had always been a proponent of sportsmanship with our coaches, with our kids. I remember after one of our awards programs, uh an internal awards programs for sports, uh, where we had presented this team, uh, these this was the you know the best sportsmanship team as voted on by our coaches. I remember hearing one of our parents, very prominent parent, mention, you know, what's all this stuff about sportsmanship? Sportsmanship is for losers. And it just rubbed me the wrong way, and I was smart enough not to engage uh that parent at that moment. But uh I just felt we needed to do some uh education with our parents uh with regards to who we are, uh what our goals are as a department, athletic department, you know, what their rules are as a parent, and and try to weave sportsmanship into it. And so working with our student leaders and our coaches, we created uh, you know, the first uh we called a parent night PowerPoint presentation. And uh a couple of things stood out. Uh we talked about you know the everyone's role, and and I would tell the parents. And the first day we did this, we actually had the kids kind of co-present. We had four of our student leaders, myself and our assistant AD, take turns presenting slides, and the kids just did a great job with it. We talked about the role of the parents, and uh, you know, we said that you you're a very important part of this team. Uh, you know, you you know we can't be successful without you, and you have a very important job. And here's your job. And up on the screen, it just said, cheer like crazy, and you know, that's your job. We need you to cheer for your kid, we need you to cheer for other kids, cheer for the other team. We said, cheer for the referees, okay? You know, don't get the referees ticked off at us. So we tried to involve them specifically. Your job is to cheer like crazy. We drifted into what your job is not. Your job is not to coach, uh, your job is not to officiate, uh, but we tried to do it in a humorous way. We also talked about uh the this idea of uh sportsmanship, and we had the definition of sportsmanship, and there's a million different ones, but we said to compete with honor, you know, to do your best. You know, it's not the winning, it's competing, and just tried to weave those two uh ideas together that competition and sportsmanship are totally interconnected, and we have different versions of that that have been modified from year to year. We have uh parent night, but the whole idea of competitive sportsmanship is if you watch it as a coach, as an A D, as a parent whose kid has been involved in sports, you can't help but see what the themes are. Okay, you know, let the players play, let the coaches coach, let the officials officiate. But again, that theme is right there for parents, you know, cheer like crazy. And um, that's competitive sportsmanship.

SPEAKER_03 50:37

Good. That's good. Well, thanks for sharing some of your ideas, some of your experience. Uh, we appreciate your time today. And Coach Baker, I think we're ready for the two-minute drill.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Okay, Jake. So, what we're gonna do is we're gonna hit you with some rapid-fire questions. You just tell us the first thing that comes to mind, okay? All right. What was the first job you ever had ever?

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Literary newspapers. What profession other than yours would you like to attempt?

SPEAKER_04 51:02

I think I am a tremendous uh play-by-play color sports announcer.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

On the flip side of that, what profession would you not like to do? It's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

One word to describe yourself.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Enthusiastic. One word others would use to describe you.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

What's your favorite vacation spot?

SPEAKER_04 51:28

It's become the Gulf Coast.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

What advice would you give your younger self?

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Listen more, talk less. What is your favorite word? Compete.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

What skill needs to be sharpened by leaders on a regular basis?

SPEAKER_03 51:49

Listening. That's good. A little tougher question here. What is a stress that needs to be noticed and reduced as quickly as possible for an athletic director? Budget.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

What should athletic leaders be talking about more right now?

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Making sports more fun. All right, our last question is our trademark question. Today, Jay Vuncher, you've been hanging with the AD, but let's say you could hang out with anyone. Who would that be and why?

SPEAKER_04 52:20

Well, selfishly, I'd like to hang out with my mom and dad. They uh my dad passed over 30 years ago, and uh my mom passed uh two years ago, and think about it daily, and we'd love to uh hang out with them a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Jake, thank you so much for the pleasure of your time today. We know that leaders listening today are going to be able to find more than one thing that they can implement immediately into their programs, and in my book, that's a win every single time. So thank you again.

SPEAKER_04 52:47

Thank you guys. And to answer your question, Josh, how can they get a hold of uh those programs? If you can put my contact information, uh, my email, uh, I'd be more than happy to send them the latest copy of our competitive sportsmanship uh PowerPoint.

SPEAKER_03 53:05

We'll do that, we'll put that in uh in the show notes. Jake's touchdown, it'll be right there for everybody to to uh click on. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thanks, guys. Jake Von Scheer is one of Florida's top athletic directors. But as you heard today, he serves our industry way beyond just the state of Florida. He has not only been a leader with the FIAA, but has served in several roles with our national organization, the NIAA. It is obvious that Jake loves the role as athletic director, and he even said so himself when he said, find something you enjoy doing and convince someone to pay you to do it. Jake is a consummate encourager, and that positive leadership style has driven much success at the McClay School in Tallahassee, Florida. Jake continues to lead and innovate as an athletic leader as well. Within the last year, he has created and published a podcast similar to this one where he talks to athletic directors all across the country. I would highly recommend you stop for a minute and search your podcast platform for the Educational A D podcast. Once again, that is the Educational A D podcast. He has tons of content from over 100 great athletic directors. Make sure you listen to the entire full episode so you can increase your AD toolbox at the end. Jake not only delivered great insights on our podcast today, but he has developed his own way to continue to help us in this industry of athletic administration learn and grow from so many others. Jake, thank you for joining us on Hangin with EAD. And now, before you go, we would love for you to just stop and click the rate and review button on your podcast platform and let us know what you thought of this episode. This helps us know that we are reaching others, and we greatly appreciate you listening and your feedback. And until next time, thank you for spending your time hanging with EAD.