SPEAKER_00 0:04

You're listening to the Hanging with the AD podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and lessons learned through leadership. Now, you're your hosts, John Matthews and Don Baker.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Welcome back to another special edition of the Hanging with the AD podcast. As we have our annual conversation with the president of the NFAA Board of Directors this year, that happens to be the man, the myth, the legend, Dr. Dustin Smith of Oklahoma. Uh Dustin, glad to have you joining us for another episode of the podcast. I believe this is your third appearance on the show, so you're making this a regular habit.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Yeah, I'm I'm maybe right there with you guys. I hang with you guys a lot.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

You do. Now, for the folks who may not know, Dustin Smith is the executive director of athletics at Broken Arrow High School in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, just outside of Tulsa. This year's conference will be held in Phoenix in mid-December. Uh, if you are a middle school or high school athletic administrator and you haven't registered, we encourage you to get registered for the best professional development and networking opportunity that you could experience. Our conversation today is going to center around that conference. And the theme uh that you'll hear about here in just a second in uh Carbon Smart uh here in Georgia is is often quoted as saying you don't have to be ticked to get better. Uh and that's what this conference is about. It's about getting better. It's about getting the best of the best in the same plate, all kind of uh wanting the same thing for their schools and kids. So, Dustin, first of all, since we last spoke, I had the privilege of attending the Oklahoma AD conference. I appreciate that opportunity that you gave both myself and Josh. Uh, but maybe even more importantly, uh thank you for introducing me to sugar llamas. Uh it was a life-changing event. Uh, any chance you could get some of those little pieces of deliciousness to Phoenix? I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Well, I mean I can bring them. They won't be hot, but I can bring them. I'm I'm in pretty good with one of the owners, so I can I can make a special delivery, but they won't be hot. And they I think that will det uh take away from their the the aura that they are. Um as you experience both in um Broken Arrow and in uh Oklahoma City, you got to experience a couple times, but um those little pieces of heaven are for um they're better consumed warm, but I can bring some out there just for you, special delivery.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

I appreciate that. All right. Now let's jump into your leadership as president this year. Your theme, make excellence normal, is a very powerful statement because it suggests that excellence shouldn't be an occasional achievement, it should be the standard. Uh, before we unpack what that means to you as a leader, take us back to where that phrase originated. If I remember correctly, there's a story involving a baseball field and home plate.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Yeah, uh John Scalinos is or was a longtime baseball coach in California, and uh he was speaking at the annual baseball coaches association conference, and he walked out with like flavor flavor. He had home plate on a chain, um, and it was a full home plate, and he started doing his address, um, and he was flavor flavor before flava flavor. Um so he's doing this address, um, and he's talking, and he's got this big old home plate around his neck and he's talking, and then at some point he makes the statement that I guess you guys have probably seen that I got this home plate. And then he started talking about what home plate was, and he asked how big how wide home plate is. Um and it doesn't matter if it's middle school or if it's the pros, it's 17 inches. And he talked about what that meant. And 17 inches was the same. They don't expand it. If you can't throw it over the plate, they don't expand it and say, Hey, try it again. We made this plate a little bigger. Um so and he he talked about, he flipped it upside down and said, See this, it looks like a home. And he said, That's the reason why they call it not fourth base, they call it a home plate. And it looks like a home. And if you put a cross on the top of it, it looks like a church. And so he started dissecting what that meant, and so it hit me thinking about what the standard is. And the standard is the standard, it didn't matter if it's little league or if it's major leagues, you're gonna have that same 17 inches. And that's what separated runs from not runs. If you don't cross that, if you can't throw a strike over that, then they don't change it. And so I wrestled with that for a long time. Listened to that, and it did pack to me, and I thought, I mean, if we could if we could find a way that the standard be the standard, and we don't lower the standard for anybody. We have the standard, we try to bring people up to that. Um, and that's where excellence came about because I listened to Stephen Mackey, and I can unpack that a little more too. But uh the home plate, it's intentional on there. I was a baseball player growing up, I love the sport. Uh, so home plate resonated with me, and I use that as part of my theme for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, that's good stuff. Um, Dustin, expand on why make excellence normal has become such an important piece of your fabric. I know you talked about Stephen Mackey and uh that that spill I think he gave in Austin, I think, uh made a huge impact. But I think there's a piece of this that centers on a shopping cart that has uh kind of uh become a part of your fabric of making excellence normal.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

It's it's the bane of my existence, if I'm gonna be honest. And when I go to Walmart or Target or whatever and I see shopping carts not put in, what I've since learned is the buggy corral. Um, and they've got those placed around, strategically placed around parking lots for people to put those carts back in it. Uh and so uh I was walking into uh neighborhood market, which is just down the road from me, um, not long ago, and somebody had just moved their shopping cart right outside the door. And if they would have put 10 steps backwards, they'd put it right where it was meant to be inside, but instead they pulled it out, grabbed their stuff out of it, and walked out. So for me, um, I I don't define that as excellence. Excellence, and this is what Stephen Mackey said, I'll give him all the credit for it. He said excellence has given the best of you to whatever's in front of you always. Um, and to me, that means there's no off-ramp, there's no exit, there's no exception, there's no opportunity for me to say, you know what, I'm not gonna be excellent right now. I guess there's opportunity, but there's no excuse to say I'm not gonna be the best version of me right now. And so the best version of me is I'm gonna take that cart and put it where it belongs. I'm gonna walk around, see if I see trash walking in from my office or my car to my office, and I'll bend down and pick up trash instead of just step over it. And I think we've gotten in the habit of looking over those opportunities for excellence, and excellence is all around us. And so what we do um with the board and what we do here at DA is we celebrate excellence. And when we see excellence, we want to recognize that, we want to celebrate that because I believe what gets celebrated gets repeated. And if people will draw their attention to it and look for it, they'll see opportunities for excellence and to celebrate that.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, I I I kind of share we're kind of kindred spirits uh in regards to that. I I told a lady I was coming out, I was leaving the grocery store, I was leaving a public. She was leaving as well, but she took the took everything out of her buggy and she left it right in the middle of the sliding door. Literally like blocking the door. And it was just like a reaction. I I I kind of had an out-of-body experience, and just audibly, I went, dang, lady. And she kind of stopped and I looked at the car, like, are you gonna do anything about this? And then she just kind of walked off. And so I I took it and moved it. And then, you know, even around their office, and I'll I'll go to the you know, if I go to the restroom and there's something, you know, a piece of paper or something on the floor or in the hallway. You know, I've even told people in her office, I was like, listen, I know that there's janitorial staff in here. It's their job to keep it clean, not clean up after us.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

That that's that's two different things.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Uh so I I totally understand uh where you're if you want to get dusting if you want to get dusting going, just uh take a picture of someone not meeting that expectation in a uh shopping with a shopping cart and put it on X or something and tag him and you'll get him going good.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

It's just I mean it it's simple things. And really we've just started overlooking that. So it's not hard to move the cart where it's supposed to go. Uh if you're gonna take the cart, you're gonna push it out to your car. I mean, that's a simple example that you can look at and say, man, I pull up in a parking lot and I see their shopping carts just sprayed around. Um, and some people won't even take the step five steps. I mean, they they leave it in the parking spot right next to the buggy corral. They won't even go put it where it belongs. And so uh I I've said that at nauseum to some of my coaches here, and my football coach particularly. I'll tell you two things about him. One, he always says, excellence starts right now. When he wakes up, he tells himself, excellence starts right now. Uh, and so that that has stuck with me because he he's thinking about it on the daily. When he wakes up, he's thinking, I gotta be the best version of me right now. And that starts. Uh, but but then he saw me at Walmart one day and he was like, Doc, I knew it. I knew that you would live this out because I guess what I was doing? I was pushing a shopping cart back to where it belonged. Um and he said, This is excellence on display. And he said, I'll brag about it on Monday morning when we do our our coach's meeting or our staff meeting because I get to see and I get to tell people that he lives what he talks about. So the shopping carts have the vein of my existence uh every time I go to one of those places. Uh, but it's also become trash, it's also become the little things. Um, and the the reality is if you're given the best version of you, you control that. It's not something that somebody else controls. You can control the best version of you. And some days it may be 70%. That may be all you got. Life is gonna lie. And the best thing that you may have is 70%. And I'm gonna blow your mind with some math. And some people say my math ain't mathing here, but give 100% of your 70%. Yeah. Whatever that is, the best version of you to whatever situation's in front of you, always. Hard stop, as Don likes to say. There's no way to say I've got an excuse, I don't feel like it today. It's it's the best version of you, and you bring that.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Good stuff. All right, let's switch gears a little bit. Talk about the NADC coming up in December. Uh, for someone listening who may be attending the NADC for the very first time, I know that that was a that was a huge eye-opening experience for me. Paint a picture of what that experience is like. What can an athletic administrator expect when they arrive in Phoenix and how can they make the most of everything that the conference has to offer?

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Well, in reality, it was it was a first time for all of us, right? We showed up the first time and like, whew. Um there's a lot, because there's a lot of people that look like they know what they're doing and they know where they're going and they know people and they got people that are connected to them. Our state conferences are one thing because you get to know people within your state because you work with them on the regular basis. Yeah. The national conferences, people from all over, not just the country, but the world. And there's going to be networks that people have built. Whether you guys do this podcast and you connect to somebody in Maine, or you connect to somebody in Hawaii, or you sub connect to somebody in Singapore or wherever it may be, people start making that connection. The beauty of the national conference is it's a bunch of like-minded people. We're all there dealing with the same things. We may be able to get away, and I don't know about you guys, but Phoenix is a lot better in December than Oklahoma is. Uh, and so it's a good way for people in Oklahoma to get out and enjoy some sunshine, um, some warmer temperatures. One, but number two, the best thing that you can do as a new uh first-time attendee is you're gonna meet some people and you're gonna hear some things that are gonna make you a better athletic administrator. It could be a conversation around a water cooler, it could be a conversation in a hallway or a lobby, um, it could be attending a workshop, it could be attending a legal course uh or taking an LTI or just an open general session. You may hear something that you're gonna bring back and say, you know what's gonna make me better. My toolbox is increased. I'm able to type tap into this, um, and you're gonna see a bunch of people that are sharing the same, we're all pulling on the same rope. And we are competitive people, yes. And when we play each other, we want to win. But when we get to that environment, we want to help each other be better. And I want to learn from somebody else. I want to go and just see, hey, how are you dealing with this? And it's a great resource that's free for you. You just get to go have a conversation. All it costs you is a conversation and the willingness to get up there and ask something. Um, and then it it can start relationships and friendships that that stand the test of time, and you build that relationship, and then you look forward to that year after year after year, because you're gonna get in there and say, Man, I can go ask Don this question, and I know what he's dealing with in in Cobb County. Or I can go ask Josh in Florida, how are you guys handling transfers? What does that look like? Um, and that may be a great question for anybody in Florida.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

What's that really look like? How much time you got? Yeah. I hadn't been here long enough to figure it out, but I don't think it matters how long you're here.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Yeah, it's wild, wild west is what they used to say. But I think I think Don to answer your question with I've said a lot of words to not really go anywhere, other than to say it's a phenomenal experience for you to be able to connect, to grow, to improve your serve, and to take information back to your district that'll benefit your kids, coaches, and community.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

100%. Yeah, I agree 100%. I loved it. Like-minded people, we all want to be in a room with people like us, right? So that's good. All right, Dustin, uh, let's get into weeds a little bit. As far as a conference goes, before you had board responsibilities, and people will see you running around with the with the blue jacket on, um, which is a privilege uh you get to have this year for sure. But before that, and in in a couple years when you don't wear that blue jacket anymore, what were or will be the events of the conference that you look most forward to?

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Um, obviously the open general session is important because you're gonna that's how we kick it off. Um and it's a it's well thought out and planned, obviously. Um so you so you go here the the open and general speaker, but we also recognize scholarship recipients, the national scholarship recipients. And and for me, that's an opportunity where we pat our chest or pound our chest and say, our future's okay. Because you see those kids that are student athletes, they're scholars, and they they understand what student athlete is all about. Yes, they're competitive, yes, they compete and they represent us in on the athletic fields and courts. But the reality is they're students first. And this is a way to highlight that. And I mean, I I get so much such a great sense of pride watching those kids deliver their essay and talk about uh just the impact of high school athletics for them. Um so the uh the opening general is awesome because it gives you a chance to to just see uh what's going on with our with our kids and in across the country. And you also hear from a renowned speaker that's gonna come and pour into just specifically athletic directors and talk about leadership and what that looks like. You've got tons of opportunity for LTIs, which are our leadership training courses. Um we can go in those and we offer all 59 of them. Um so if you want a class, there's an opportunity to take a class or multiple classes. Now I would highly suggest not doing all the legals in one weekend um because you it's it's a lot of your brain will just explode just trying to process all of that. Um but there's a bunch of LTI courses. Um the NFHS luncheon is important because we're gonna honor some people in that, and you'll you'll see a theme with this. Um, but then Monday night when we do the Hall of Fame banquet um and we do the honors and awards, and um both of you guys will be part of that process and what that looks like. But that's cool because we honor people uh for what they do in our profession. We are terrible about bragging about ourselves. We don't like to talk about ourselves and our accomplishments, even on our campuses. People don't even know what we do. Uh, and so when we get a chance to celebrate that, I think that's something everybody needs to go to. They need to see what that looks like because these are the Mount Rushmores of our profession, people have been doing it and been doing it at a high level for a for an extended period of time. And it's our chance to pay homage to them and say, man, thank you. Thank you for what you've done, and I'm gonna celebrate you tonight because you're worthy to be celebrated. So if I was to pick three, it'd be the open general, you go to the luncheon, and then you go to that awards banquet on Monday night. Um, and then any networking opportunity from a workshop to a class you can take, fill those in and fill that time.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Yeah, I think that's uh I was gonna mention the uh I wanted you to mention the banquet. I th I figured that would be on your list, and that's good. And as a side note, the luncheon and the banquet are free meals for all athletic directors who are registered. So it's not something you pay extra for. It's accounted. You're uh you're uh you have a meal there and you get to go hang out with the best of the best, uh at least from the Hall of Fame perspective and so forth there. Um one thing I did want to bring to your attention and maybe get your thoughts on, uh, and I think it's probably Don's favorite session. He might argue the most valuable session for ADs that they can attend is that legal year and review. I know you had Don out to Oklahoma to do a legal review presentation for your conference that he mentioned earlier. Why is this session a must for AEDs to attend on Tuesday?

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Well, for me, uh I always wanted to make sure my school wasn't listed in any of those presentations. Uh, I just wanted to make sure my school wasn't part of that um legal year interview. But for for me, it's a highlight, it's a way to cap off obviously um the conference. I say cap it off. It's it's usually done at the end of the conference or towards the end. Um, but it's well worth it because you learn what's going on, whether it's hazing, whether it's some kind of legal uh duty that you're not fulfilling, you're seeing what's happening across the country, and then that gives you opportunity to educate your staff when you get back and say, hey, this is what's going on in XYZ state. Now I'm not pointing fingers at the school, it's just a lesson to be learned. It's an opportunity for you to say, okay, do we have things in place that are preventing this from happening? Are we supervising the locker room like we're supposed to? Because hazing's a big deal. Um bullying, what does that look like? Um, some of the NIL cases will come up and how that looks in different states. Well, how's that going to impact me in Oklahoma or you guys in Florida and Georgia and what that really looks like? You can take the information from that, learn from those cases, hopefully, and then one, like I said, don't want to have your school listed as one of those uh that they're reviewing. But number two, how can that impact your school when you bring it back? And I think the best part of the conference is you get a bunch of information to take back and train your people and help invest in your people and let them be prepared because life's gonna happen no matter where we're at. And in our litigious society, there are a lot of people that are just waiting to sue. So, how do you put measures in place to prevent that? Um, and it's not trying to be scared, it's just trying to be educated and trying to be prepared.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Yep, agreed. And kind of let's speak to that what happens next, because when you go to the NADC, it is kind of all consuming. You get in this bubble and you feel like if I could just stay here, I would be excellent, right? Absolutely. Um but if I could just stay in this bubble, I would it would I could crush this thing. But then when I go back, I have all of the other things that are not just my AD job, but it could be my assistant principal job or my coaching responsibilities, whatever it may be. One last question to wrap up this special edition. Dustin, what advice would you give athletic administrators as they walk away from the conference? So I register, I book the hotel, I figure out my transportation, which for me means surviving a terrifying flight.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Nothing I'm not I'm not a great flyer. Then I gotta spend several days learning, listening to great speakers, connecting with colleagues from across the country and beyond. I go to the exhibit hall. That's you know a huge experience and can be overwhelming in exploring new ideas and products. I attend the banquet, I hear your presidential address. Then I get on the plane, head home with a notebook full of ideas and probably a phone full of new context and voicemails of all the fires that I've got to put out once I get back home, right? And then that's where the reality hits. So what happens next? How do we take everything that we've gained at the NADC and then turn it into action that actually makes us better leaders and improves the experience of the people that we serve?

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Yeah, that's that's a phenomenal question. And I think all of us wrestle with that, right? Uh try to figure out what's the best way to unpack all of that. Um so it if I go out there and and I come back um with all those things that you mentioned, new contacts and all this information, and and and I've I've learned all this stuff or heard all this stuff, but I don't apply it, then have I really learned it. Yeah.

unknown 21:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Or am I just hearing it? Um and that's two different things. And so it takes some discipline when you come back and try to unpack that. And it's good that it's right around Christmas because we get somewhat of a break from the school side of things. Um, may not be athletic side, but that's a great time to unpack. And usually on the flat back, your terrified self probably is not doing this. Um, but I will try to start making some notes and saying, okay, how can this apply?

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yeah, I'm just trying to I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to hang on.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Yeah, you're just trying to live. Yeah. Let me give you a little breaking news, Don. You have zero control of. To that.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Good point. Yes. Very true.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

To some pilots who you don't know and you don't know what kind of nights they've had. So you have zero control. So if you if all you do is go out to Phoenix, you attend the conference, you learn all this stuff, but you don't apply it, you've just taken a vacation. And you're not getting better. Um, you may have heard something, but if you can't apply it, it doesn't mean that you've actually learned it. And so I think the application is the best part when you come back and start figuring out how can I apply that to a coach's meeting? And it don't have to be all that. You don't word vomit at all and say, Right I went through every one of this. Is this my recap? But you take certain situations and certain things, and maybe you learn about an EAP or somebody doing an EAP a little bit different. How do they do like you guys do in in Cobb County, your medical minute? How can you apply that? Uh, what's a hot topic that may be going out? Females and leadership, and how do we encourage that? How do we embrace that? Um, how do we promote that? Uh and start figuring out ways to do those things that you learn at your place. Again, you can't dump it all. You can't dump the dump truck up and just say, here it is. You just start taking pieces of that and start applying it. And maybe it's a coach's meeting. Maybe it's just an individual conversation with a coach. Hey, I saw this. How can you how can you work with your coach and staff? Maybe it's a book review, maybe you guys do a book study as part of your staff. How are you improving your staff? How are you impressed and improving them? And if you're fortunate, I've I've got a fairly decent sized staff. Um so I can do it from a a couple of angles. I can work with my coaches or I can work with my administrative staff. And how do I make them better? How do I teach them? And then how do I connect to those people that I made those connections with? Follow up with them. Hey Don, at your breakout, you said this. And here's a question I have for you. Um I wasn't brave enough to ask it in front of everybody, but I want to be able to ask you this question. Um and then turn to that Rolodex and start asking those questions and say, maybe you're gonna deal with tragedy and you gotta retire a number. What does that look like? Well, I can call Gary Stevens up in Maine, and I know Gary's got a whole list of things that he could help me walk through and see what that looks like. Or maybe I need to learn a strategic plan, or we want to launch a strategic plan for our state conference or for our state association. How do I do that? Well, I've got this person that I can tap into. I know they've done one. I can call Josh Guide in Missouri and say, I know you've done one recently for your state association. Can you give me some pointers? Um, but it's that network, but it's a network only if you tie into it. Right. It doesn't matter if you don't reach out to I got names in my phone, but if I don't connect with them, they're just names in my phone. So you build that network, you build that relationship, but then you impact your staff by applying what you learned with them. And it could be small bites at a time. You know, any elephant, one big bite. It's got to be small bites. And so you get to figure out what that looks like for you. Um and you heard it from somebody else. I might talk to uh Andre Walker down in Houston, and he deals with some problems I don't deal with. But he may have something that he says that I was like, Man, that's a great idea, and I can apply that here at Broken Arrow. Um, even though I'm not the multi- multi-school district like he is, I can take something that I learned from him and apply it to my place. So go with the opportunity to just open yourself, learn, and then be ready to come back and apply that however you can.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah, that that's uh great advice. Absolutely great advice. And to your point, not one time, whether it be there or whether it be after I got home, have I reached out to someone or asked someone a question and they refuse to help, or they refuse to answer the phone, or they refuse to have that back and forth so that we can get better. It is a safe space. And the athletic administrator community is the most collaborative community that I've ever been a part of because we all want the same thing. Dustin, congratulations on being selected to serve as the 47th president of the NFAA board, and thank you for your leadership, your friendship, and the impact that you've made on athletic administrators throughout the years. This year, you've challenged more than 17,000 NIAA members to make excellence normal, and I think that's a message that extends far beyond our profession. It's a challenge for all of us uh to make excellence part of who we are and what we do every day. Finally, thank you for joining us again today, for giving everyone a glimpse of what awaits at the NADC in December. Uh, we appreciate you and uh we look forward to seeing you there in Phoenix.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

And thank you guys. Thanks for the opportunity, and I look forward to seeing uh hopefully a record number of people at our our national conference in Phoenix. Uh, and when I extend the opportunity, I'll I'll just invite it for Don and Josh. If you see any one of us, stop us, say hey, uh, we want to make that connection. Uh we want to be able to help in any way that we possibly can. So thank you guys for what you do. Thank you for your service to athletic administrators and making our profession better.