SPEAKER_00 0:04

You're listening to the Hanging with the AD podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and lessons learned through leadership. Now, here are your hosts, Josh Matthews and Don Baker.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Welcome to another episode of the Hanging with the AD podcast. In today's episode, we're joined by someone who knows a thing or two about building leaders and pursuing excellence. Our guest is Bailey Miles, the founder and host of the Building Excellence Podcast. Bailey is an entrepreneur who spent time in the home building business and other ventures, and some may recognize him from his days on the hardwood, both as a collegiate player and coach. What makes Bailey stand out is his ability to connect lessons from sports, business, and life to help others grow into leaders of impact. His podcast has featured incredible voices across leadership and athletics. And today, he's joining us to share some of the insights he's gathered along the way. We'll talk about what it means to build a personal leadership brand, how great leaders refine theirs with humility, and why the people you surround yourself with earlier in your career might matter more than what you're doing. We'll also dive into the concept of excellence, what it really looks like, why it's not loud but steady, and how we can make it normal in our daily lives. And of course, we'll wrap with a question Bailey asked all his guests: What does building excellence mean to you? It's a powerful conversation with a genuine leader and lifelong learner. So let's jump in. Here's our conversation with Bailey Miles.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Bailey, we're so glad to have you joining Don and me for this episode of Hanging with the AD. It's always great to have a fellow podcaster and a great leader join us.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yeah, thank you for allowing me to be here. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

It's great. So for our listeners, may not have heard of Bailey Miles, right? Bailey Miles is the founder of the Building Excellence podcast. That's kind of how we found him, but he's uh done, and uh he is much more than that. He's an entrepreneur, has spent time in the home building business. And people might say, you know, you got a home builder on here. Uh, where are we going with this? But he's uh had many other venture ventures as well. Uh but for most of you listeners out there, you'll be interested to know that in his bat his basketball career included playing and coaching collegiately. So he's got some uh great athletic background, but also uh big-time leadership uh experience as well. So we're gonna stop right there and let Bailey tell us a little bit more about his journey through athletics and leadership. Uh Bailey, we call it the back of the baseball card bio. So maybe take a minute, tell us what the back of Bailey Miles baseball, or in your case, basketball card would look like.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Yeah, that's a great question. I love that idea. And I did play baseball, so I love the baseball card. And I used to collect baseball cards back when I was real little. So um that's a good question. You know, for me, I'm I'm a husband and father. For me, my faith is very important to me. So I would say those things would be on the back of my baseball card. But maybe, you know, for my my journey, I would say uh I grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where I currently am today, and spent a few years in South Carolina from university. So I've pretty much lived here my entire life, but always played sports, and sports are always influential in my life, which is ironic because my parents did enjoy sports, but it wasn't like they had the background and athletics that my brother and I wound up having. But I the one thing that I'm very thankful for is I feel like I did have a competitive advantage in just having great parents that loved and cared for me. And it wasn't always things that they maybe said, and they did say things, but not consistently. That wasn't their way of kind of teaching us, but it was their example. And so I'm really thankful for that, and I appreciate all the love and the care and the support that they gave me at a young age. Um, but playing baseball, basketball, and football, that was kind of always something I I did and loved playing sports, being on a team, working towards a goal. And that was always a big part of my story. And wound up having a chance at some small Division III schools to go play baseball originally and wound up having an opportunity to go uh be a walk-on at Furman University on the baseball team. Uh, my high school basketball coach asked me to coach our junior varsity basketball team at Oral Roberts University team camp. I did that and I loved it, and I was like, this is what I actually want to do. So when I got to Furman, I wound up talking to the coaching staff on the basketball team, and they wound up giving me an opportunity to come in and basically try out to be a walk-on. And so did that and wound up having an opportunity where they said, Hey, no, you want to be a walk-on, but we also, you know, we've got a bunch of walk-ons here. Would you like to maybe be a student assistant? And you'll have an opportunity to travel with the team. You actually make a little bit of money doing that, and then at the same time, you'll be able to kind of be around us and get to learn about coaching. And so I wound up doing that because, you know, there was not a future path for me as a player, especially in basketball. So I wound up doing that, which was a great experience. Um, after my freshman year of college at Furman, wound up going to Oklahoma State, was just going to be a student manager at the time with their basketball staff, and wound up having an opportunity where one of the guys took a college coaching job as an assistant somewhere that opened up a GA spot, and they knew I wanted to coach. So they asked me if I wanted to be a GA. And at the time, you know, being a sophomore as a GA, that was, you know, pretty incredible if you wanted to get in coaching. Right. So I did that. Uh, but at the same time, I was rushing a fraternity, and my parents wound up just getting divorced. So after a couple months of doing that, I was like, okay, this is it's a lot of time, as people in athletics know, it is a time commitment and there's a lot of work involved. So you better enjoy it and you better be committed to it. But for me, my my my parents got divorced, and so I was like, you know what? My brother was senior high school, something's got to give, so I wound up stepping away from being a GA. And I realized, okay, if I'm not gonna be a coach, if I'm not gonna be a player, what those are pretty much the two paths to get into coaching. How can I turn this into a positive rather than a negative? And so there were a few guys, you know, Buzz Williams is now the head coach at Maryland, and then Josh Pastner is now the head coach at UNLV at the time. I think Buzz was at Marquette, and then Josh was at Memphis at the time. And those two guys really laid the blueprint. I just studied up on, I didn't know these guys. I just studied up on them and heard their stories. They sent out letters to probably, I think, every single Division I, Division II, Division III program. And so that's what I started doing. I was just like, I have opportunity to go out and meet people, write letters, try to get a chance to go watch practices, work camps in the summertime. So I traveled all over the country, but I tried to pick and have opportunities. Obviously, they pick you, but have opportunities to go work camps in the summertime at places where I wanted to learn about the coaches that were there and the programs that they had. Obviously, they were successful programs, but more importantly for me, they aligned with the values and the ideals that I wanted to implement one day, hopefully, when I was the head coach. And so got a chance to go to a lot of places. Some of those places were uh Lorenzo Romar was at the University of Washington at the time. Uh Mark Few is still at Gonzaga. Um, you know, Brad Stevens was at Butler. Right. And so he's now with the Celtics. Um Tony Bennett was at Virginia. Um anyway, I I could I could name a lot of people, but trying to go and learn from those types of people, and for whatever reason, there was some favor when I got there and had conversations and got to learn a lot. So I I don't know if I want to you want to stop me there or I can keep going.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

It just well, what a novel idea. You writing letters. Like let's let's like there, let's just stop right there. I didn't even, you know, that that's still a thing, people. So you can still do that. So I think that's the coolest part of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah, I'm intrigued, but I know Buzz Williams' story, I've heard that several times and love it. And the way he uh found ways to finance his letter writing was even more intriguing and more uh interesting. But yeah, writing letters to coaches all over the country is uh pretty cool and and really a good way to uh make an impression for sure.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Yeah, it was it was something that uh I just learned from following those guys' stories, and it it was influential and important, still is important. I mean, I think to this day, when I get letters from originally my parents or people that say something nice, I've I've got a box, I still keep those things because words of affirmation is a love language of mine, so I I appreciate those things, and so I think those are always important. And when you have an idea or thought, write it out or shoot a text, we can easily do that as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

So right, yeah. I heard you say, and I think Don heard we we both heard you say that you still have still have all the letters your parents wrote you, and I think uh that that's pretty cool for the leaders out there. I would encourage them. Uh I do this, is I keep uh what I call a smile folder. Somebody else coined that phrase, but anytime I get an email, sometimes a text is hard to print, but anytime you get something uh like a letter or email or whatever, print it off, put it in your smile folder and keep it. And one day we'll be able to look back and smile on our careers, right? So that's a that's a great tactic uh that you've done to to keep that important stuff. So yeah, yeah, love that. Well, cool, man. You got a great, uh, a great path. And I know people listening uh now understand why we wanted to connect with you outside of your podcast called Building Excellence. Uh, for us, that's a that's a huge term. We'll get into that in a few minutes, but I want to start with a question. You you mentioned a lot of leaders you've been around, and I want to start with something that we don't talk much about, and that's a leader's brand. I I think we don't harp on our brand much because it can seem arrogant and it cannot come out very humble, right? Hey, I'm working on my brand, my brand is you know, it's just hard to talk about it, right? But I think every leader has a brand, and that brand adjusts with every big decision, and possibly even more often than that. You've interviewed and been around some incredible leaders, you named a few there. How do the best leaders create and refine their leadership brand in a humbling, attractive way?

SPEAKER_03 10:16

That is a great question. I would say, from my perspective, what some of the best leaders do is first off, they lead with integrity. So they're authentically themselves and they try to do the right thing. But at the same time, this is something I this is a great question because I I may not know the answer, but you know, you you talked about humility, and some of the best leaders, in my opinion, have confident humility. So they're humble, but they're confident in who they are. And I think when you're around those types of people, everyone notices in some capacity, you notice something's a little bit different. And those are the people that I really admire and want to emulate. But when you think of those people, the humility is they have a atmosphere of asking great questions, of caring about people, but yet they're very driven and they lead effectively. And we can get into some other ideas too in a little bit. But I think that idea of curiosity, of humility is something that authenticity is something everyone's gonna be a little different, but being just yourself instead of trying to be somebody else, I know people say that stuff a lot. Um and then just I think that correlates into putting yourself out there on social media branding and whatnot. Everything that you do, whether it's on social media or not, is branding yourself. And so how you treat other people, um, how you speak to people, how you lead in meetings, how you talk to, if you're an AD or a coach, how you talk to parents. And we don't always get it right, but it's that constant adjustment and alignment of trying to be the type of person with the values that you want to be and the and the character that you want to have. And so I would just say that authenticity is key, everyone's different, but just being true to yourself and really leading from your heart instead of trying to lead from maybe what you think leadership should look like.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

That's good. We kind of build on something that you've we've already kind of talked about and something we talked about before we got on. Uh, on a recent episode with uh Jeremy Kubacuk, you he said something that really stuck with me when he said earlier in your career, it's more important who you're around than what you're doing. And really from your experience, what does that mean to you first?

SPEAKER_03 12:26

Yeah, well, that means that means everything. And it's something I've always try to remind myself because I think it's great advice, especially for young people. And it doesn't matter what age you are, it's great advice. Um, you know, for me, I wanted to identify guys like Tony Bennett, Brad Stevens, uh the people in the Thunder Organization, Sam Prestey, Langel Romar, guys that had the same values that were way ahead of me, and then some that were just ahead of me too, because you can learn from everybody and also the people that are around you are really key as well. But when you find those people, try to figure out ways to learn from them. Whether that is through a podcast or getting a chance to write a letter, write a note, text some somebody, call their assistant to have a meeting. You'd be surprised at how many people would be willing to say yes to you asking, Hey, can I have 15, 20 minutes of your time? But when you get there, you better be prepared and you better not waste that person's time. But I think that's that's part of my story too, is people always ask me, how do you get people on the podcast to have you connected to this person? And I would just say it's just I ask. Yeah, but I I try to do it in the right way. The right con there's like a self-awareness to it too. I and I I wouldn't say like I'm the best at that, but I try to be aware of how I go about doing that so that it doesn't come across as trying to me just get something from somebody. I want to really learn. I think that's maybe my posture that's helped me is that I'm I would say I'm naturally curious. And so when I talk to people, I want to learn their story and how they got there. And that's I think that's one of the most important things that someone can do when trying to learn from other people is just be willing to ask and then find people that align with your values and and where you want to go and learn from.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

And then from a from a job standpoint, it's I don't care what it is, right? Just get in there, do it, do it well, and then that will then lead to other things. At least I know that that was my story. It was I remember when we f this was I'm gonna date myself here a little bit, but when we got the first software that would allow you to do highlights, right? Nobody wanted to touch the computer. Like nobody wanted to have anything to do with it. I said, I'll do it. Okay. Well, then you start turning out highlights, you start kids start getting opportunities they didn't get before. Now all of a sudden I've created value for myself, right? And all that was was just me, it was what am I doing? It was, okay, I've got a I've got an opportunity here. Nobody else wants to take it, I'll just do it. And then it turned into something bigger. Um and to your point about asking, that that is the the whole template for this podcast. It people just keep saying yes. Uh, you know, they'll they'll ask us, how did you get so and so? How did you get so? We asked. I don't we just asked, right? So I don't I don't know what else to tell you. Um you know, we one of our recently, you know, we had the chairman of Augusta National, and everybody's like, oh my gosh, how did you do that? Josh called his law office in Tampa or whatever and just talked to his secretary. So it's not that hard. Uh I think people see people as untouchable and they're really not. Obviously, you got to find the gatekeeper, you got to find the right person uh if it's not the person, but definitely something that I don't I think people don't really tap into enough. Now, you spent time coaching college basketball, you were surrounded by some great coaches back then. For for those of us who have been in coaching, we sometimes wonder how those lessons carry over into the corporate world. I think there's a misconception that those two things are in silos. What are some of the things that you've learned from those high-level coaches that still influence your leadership today?

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Well, there is a guy named Terry Cook who lives in Charlottesville, Virginia, and he's got a leadership development tool that I think is the best that I've seen so far. And it's it's really simple. It's lead develop care, LDC, lead develop care. And when you think about leadership in basketball, in any sport, in any business, even in the church, I think those three concepts, if you can do those well, and they're simple to remember, if you lead effectively, so as a leader, you're casting vision, or if you're a follower, you're doing a good job and you're intentional, like you just talked about with your story, of finding opportunities to make your organization better, right? But as the leader, you lead with vision, you show everybody where you're going, and you make sure you carry that out. You're the chief or mining officer, you're letting everybody know where you're going every single day. But you also have to develop your people, and that's probably the biggest one that's that's always a challenge is developing your people, developing your players, making sure they're getting better every day. And you do that through training, you do it through intentionality of having conversations, and then the care part goes into the conversations. I think the best leaders, and it sounds foo-foo, but they care about their people. I mean, if you think back, maybe for you guys, the coaches that you had that had an impact on you, who are they and why? Or maybe who is the person in your life that's made an impact on you and why? And I would just beg to say that probably it's because they cared about you. That's one element, probably, is they cared and they showed interest in you. And when you do those things really well, I think that has helped, you know, in a nutshell, effective leadership. And you could dive into a lot of con all those concepts, but those three things I think translate across any sport to any business in ministry, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

That's really good. Now, your podcast focuses on excellence, obviously. Based on the conversations that you've had with so many high achievers, how would you respond to this quote from Jason Curry on the Finish Empty podcast? Excellence is not loud, it's steady. Right? I'm gonna say that again. Excellence is not loud, it's a steady. First of all, do you agree with that? And if you can, uh maybe share a real life example of how you've seen that idea lived out.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Yeah, I love that quote. And I was just thinking about this the other day. A value that I really love today is steadiness. It's consistency, but it's steadiness. The best, some of the best leaders that I respect are people that are always just steady, they're constant. And uh you talk about reaching out to people, it's that that persistence and consistency to do it day in, day out. I think it's really easy for us to want to do things that are new all the time. I know I'm like that. Like I want to I want to do lots of new stuff where it's fun, it's exciting, but then that day after day after day after day, consistency is tougher to do because it's not fun, it's not exciting sometimes. But that's what I mean, actually, you know, I just had a thought. Um I got a chance one time at Thunder Training Camp, and this was back when I was in college. I had an opportunity to go sit at Thunder Training Camp, and I remember sitting next to uh a guy named John Shire. And at the time, I I grew up a Duke fan, so he was a guy that I really looked up to. And anyway, he came to the city.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah, he turned out pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Yeah, he's doing pretty well.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

But I remember him sitting next to me, and at the time I hadn't been around a lot of high-level guys, so you know, I'm still trying to play it cool. But I'm sitting there asking him about uh Coach K and what makes him him different. And I know he does it has no idea about this conversation, probably doesn't remember it, but he was telling me that what Coach K does is is not so much the X's and O's, even though it is these things, but it's that consistency to help these guys grow day in, day out, the same similar drills over and over so they get really good at what they're doing. And that's not the answer that people want to hear, right? But that is what helps you achieve success. And if you guys have read Atomic Habits, I love the idea of the ice cube. You know, so if you put an ice cube in you know, negative one degrees, it's still an ice cube. Negative two, negative three, there's been degree change, but there's still no difference, right? Four, five, six, ten, twenty, still a big change in degrees, but no difference. And you get to 30, 31, still no difference, 32, all of a sudden there's a difference. That consistency leading up to that point. There's been a big change, but you can't see it yet. And I think that's how a lot of leaders in business and sports, uh individuals and life, that's how you see breakthrough is that consistent effort over time when you can't see everything eventually because you do that thing really well and you keep going, then all of a sudden you see a breakthrough. But it's really tough to do, and that's why it's so impactful.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

That's what I was gonna say, especially in today's world where we want it now. We don't want to wait. You know, we I know in in our profession, we are seeing more and more first year coaches, teachers, second year, they want to be a head coach now. And I I've told this on here probably a dozen times where I had a young coach and he came to me and he goes, How I was a local school athletic director, and he was like, How do I get your job? And he was a PE teacher and a coach. I said, You go back to the gym and you teach your class right now. That's what you need to do right now. It's not good, it's not gonna happen right now. You're 23 years old, so we're gonna we're gonna work for a little bit and then we're gonna figure it out, you know. Um, but to your point, like that's that's tough today. It that that idea of I'm gonna put my head down and I'm just gonna grow incrementally and and get it done that way. So I think that that's refreshing to hear you say that.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Bailey, you started talking about steadiness and and you talked about that story about Coach Kay. I was reminded of a former guest of ours, but friend of ours in Georgia, he's a retired A D named Carter Wilson. And when he was on, he talked about going to the post every day. I just went to the post every day, and that's talking about going to school, but that was his word for it. And um, I was reminded of that. He just and and you talk about study and And calm and patient. That's that's a picture of Carter Wilson right there. So you kind of painted that for us. But then you talk about the consistency and drills and what Coach K did. We had another guest, a former guy I coach with, uh his name's Mickey McMurtry, and we we coached baseball. And he he was an elite leader, high profile school, high, high, high achieving school. And we would go to the national conferences or even the state conference and hear about all these drills, and we would talk about them, and we would come back and say, you know what, our drills are still better. And we would do those same drills day after day after day, and it's amazing the performance that those drills. But he he was curious about are there things out there better than what we did? And we never found anything during his time, but we were curious, but at the same time, we were reflective saying, like Coach K, we're gonna be consistent, we're gonna do the same thing every day, and it's gonna lead to success, like Coach K found. So those are two great reminders there.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

So yeah, and and as you say that, I think one of the things too is people that are able to be consistent. I mean, there are obviously some people that are just really good no matter what, but you have to know, you have to have a sense of mission or purpose behind what you're doing. Because when you have that, like if a guy wants to be a head coach one day, you know, maybe like I did. I didn't think I was hoping to be a college coach, now I'm a high school coach, right? But if you have a dream, a goal, desire, all of a sudden you're gonna have the ability to persist longer than people, you'll have that ability to persist longer than most people will if you don't really want it. So you have to understand what's the purpose, what's the mission, what are you really wanting to do. So all of a sudden now you can you can persist longer than most people, right? I don't know if you guys have ever heard Craig Rochelle, he's a he's a pastor in Oklahoma, but he has a quote that I heard, and it's successful people do consistently what other people do occasionally. Yeah. And that that kind of embodies it as well. It's good.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

All right, I want to I want to get your take on something that I think um maybe a little contradictory, uh, that maybe not, just maybe a different way of saying the same thing, but I want to get your and it's about excellence. Um, but once again, when I hear them initially, I think they contradict each other, but not but maybe not. Uh you just met uh recently one of our buddies, Dustin Smith, out there in your area, and he has a short little mantra. I don't know if he talked about this with you, but he has a short little mantra he shared with us. We kind of implemented it in our leadership here at Pope this year, and it goes like this or it really is just a short little statement. Make excellence normal. So make excellence normal. But then Stephen Mackey, who we heard speak in the 2024 NADC, he says excellence is giving all you've got in the moment, even if 70% is your best that day, right? Basically, you may not have excellence or 100%, but get give it that's what excellence is giving all you got. How do you reconcile those two things?

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Yeah, I think they're they're similar in my opinion. I think at the end of the day, excellence or striving to be excellence is it sounds really cliche, but it's just doing the best of what you're capable of every single day in whatever your endeavor is. If you think about it, that's all you really can do. People talk about 110%, but you can only give 100%. That's all you got.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Thank you so much for saying that. I'm I'm gonna I'm just gonna I'm just gonna pause for just a second. That that is a thing with me. I just I I I don't when people say 100%, that's not a thing. It's not a thing. 100% is all you have, so just give all you have. I'm sorry, I'm gonna let you go, but I had to I had to say that. Thank you so much. I'm glad I'm not alone.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

I'm glad it was impactful for you. But yes, I I get the understanding of the 110% giving the extra, but you can only give 100%. You can only give all you got. And we all have different gifts, talents, and abilities. And sometimes, I mean, I remember playing sports and being in a game, and we competed to our highest capability. We had the best game we could, but we still lost. Did we really do we lose? Because we just competed at our highest level. We can get better, we'll try to get better, but at the same time, that's all we could have done. And so I think at the end of the day, it's it's exhausting everything you got and everything you're doing. And you will not always give your best. We're human and sometimes that happens. Hopefully, we can give our best every single time. But I think the idea of just making sure we don't do it two days in a row, right? And we can just continue trying to get better and get better. We give 70% one day, let's give 100% the next. 100%, 100%. Maybe we go back to 60, have a bad day. All right, we'll readjust and keep going. So I think those things correlate, yeah. And and so I when I think of those quotes, I I love them both, but I think that's what I would think of.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yeah, how do you feel about Stephen Mackey what he talks about? And I think you're alluding to this. Sometimes 70%'s all you got. So if you give 100% of 70%, you gave it all you got. How how does that connect with excellence?

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Yeah, I think I think that is. Like excellence, you know, everyone can define excellence differently, but to me, it's just trying to give your best all the time in whatever you're doing. And so if you have a bad day, we all have bad days. All right. Try to give your best during that bad day. And then just make sure that next day is better than the last day. Right? Um, we all have hiccups and we make mistakes, and it's just making sure that when we do that, we adjust and keep going.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Yeah, I think you probably you probably just answered you know my next question. And that that's it's it's amazing on here how we'll through a conversation, we we get in a flow, and then the the guest will just answer that that next question. But one of the things that makes your podcast so special is the way that you draw those powerful insights out of your guest. And every episode you ask a signature question. What does building excellence mean to you? It's a question that really captures the heart of the show. Uh so before we wrap up here in a little bit, I think your listeners would love for us to turn that question back to you. So uh Bailey Miles, what does building excellence mean to you?

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah, building excellence to me means giving your best in whatever it is you're doing at the current time. I mean, that's it's as simple as that and getting better each day. So give your best and then get better each day.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Good stuff. I think about that every time I hear your show because we'll ask a question that we ask all our guests as well. So I'm thinking, man, I wonder, oh, and and if we ever talk to him, we gotta ask him that. So that's uh that's why we had to do it. That's great.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Yeah, yeah, I love it. I don't get that super often, so it's great. It's great. It makes me have to think.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So you got yeah, yeah. Well, you got like hundreds of uh different definitions to pull from there that's trying to run it run through your head, and it's hard to formulate your own sometimes. Yep. Um all right, simple question for you here. What's been the best part of doing your podcast?

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Oh, just learning. Just learning from other people, learning from great leaders. Uh, I think that's what I'm so fortunate. You know, I never ever thought out or dreamed to have a podcast. So you know, I didn't elaborate into my story, but getting out of coaching, I wound up going to firm university, getting a chance to coach. And I knew, you know, that season that, you know, this is the I knew I was getting into, but when you live that lifestyle day in, day out, you really realize if you want that lifestyle. And for me, I just didn't, I didn't have the love or the desire to continue on in that path. And so getting out of that was really challenging because I had spent a lot of time, effort, and energy getting into coaching. So moving back to Tulsa, I got in real estate development. And one of my good friends had given me a podcast to listen to. And I'd never listened to a podcast or really even heard of a podcast, which is ironic because it wasn't super long ago. And listened to it and I was like, this is really good, this is really interesting. But then I started to think, man, I really wish that I could go back and re-listen to some of these conversations that I had when I was pursuing the coaching journey. Because I would meet with guys I mentioned, both in college, MBA. I'd reach out to business leaders to talk about leadership. I would just do this stuff, what I do on the podcast anyway. Now I'm just recording it. And so I thought, you know, this could be a really cool way to reconnect with some of the coaches that I didn't always get to have the conversation with anymore because you're out of basketball, and so you're not going to see people as frequently or have a reason to reach out. And then also, too, to bring in the concepts of business and faith and talk about those types of things too. It was really something I wanted to do. And so the podcast has been fun because I just get to have conversations with different leaders and get to learn about their stories, their journey, the lessons and the leadership lessons and life lessons that they've been able to learn so I can get better. And so even if no one was to listen, I would still do it because I love doing it. That's just that's just my makeup. I don't know why, but that's I'm naturally curious. So I love asking questions. It's always tougher when it's reverse. Now I get asked questions because I I struggle sometimes to to, even though I'm talking a lot now, but to talk about myself as much. So it's it's something that I really enjoy is getting a chance to just hear people's stories and and uh then learn from them.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yeah, it's funny how our stories of podcasting uh are very, very similar. So when I became an AD 14 years ago, I had a goal to go meet with one athletic director every summer, sit down and talk. And I did that for about five summers. And I still struggle to go find those notes or remember what we talked about. And I really wasn't prepared asking leadership. I was more asking, you know, uh operational stuff that probably doesn't matter a whole lot. Uh, but then I'm so fortunate that Don took on this task with me, and uh, we kind of molded this podcast into that same thing. So we say the same, we say the same exact quote to other people like, what you know, tell us about the podcast, what do you get out of it? Like, how cool is it? As like we, you know, and and the question always comes up well, how many people listen? How many, how many listeners did you how many, how many subscribers? Uh we we go look at it every once in a while, but we really don't care because we're getting better every time we have someone like you on the podcast. So uh it's professional development for ourselves and it's cataloged, and we go back and listen to it and get better again.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

So yeah, well, and even even think about your guys' story with the podcast. We just talked about steadiness and consistency. What enables you guys to consistently put out the podcast, right? I mean, is it is it it's something you love doing, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yeah, it's curiosity. We want to get better and we love talking to people, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yeah, and so it's it's a little easier to be more consistent when you have that that desire, that mission, that purpose to to share stories that inspire others.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Yeah, I wrote that down. I think any any leader listening uh to to uh uh understand you must have a sense of mission or purpose behind everything you do to be persistent. So many coaches want to know why their teams don't succeed. And I truly think it's uh based on what you said, is they don't know their mission. They don't know their purpose, they just want to win. And winning's not anybody's purpose. Winning is a goal, it's not a purpose. And uh, I think ones who people who don't know their personal mission, uh, and and luckily I've been challenged, I think Don has too by pastors and uh mentors to you you need to have a personal mission statement and you need to know what that is, and then have a mission statement for your organization. We developed that for Pope Athletics uh about five or six years ago, and it's been a game changer. So, and excellence is in that uh mission. So uh it's it's a it's a game changer. And I think if we go look at success since we developed our mission statement, uh whether it's in hiring or performance or improvements, whatever it is, we've had better success in that time because we have a mission and a purpose. So I think I think what you said there is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

So and yeah, I just finished a book. Have you guys ever read Do Hard Things? I think the author's Magnus or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

I've got it on my I've got it on my desk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

I just finished that book and it's really interesting. You know, I read a lot of books, but I always try to consolidate what I'm learning on the back and just you know, maybe two or three thoughts. And in that book, one of the biggest takeaways for me was that in doing hard things, the people that are able to do more hard things are the people that have an understanding of their makeup and and their mission and their purpose and what they're doing. I mean, Victor Frankel, Man Search for Meaning, the people that were able to survive were the ones that had a sense of meaning and mission. Sense of meaning is what he called it. And then even in Shoe Dog, so if you guys have ever read Shoe Dog by Phil Knight, at the very end, I love I love the quote, and I'm gonna not say it correctly, but he's like, he encourages people to seek a calling, even if you don't know what that means, because the highs will be like nothing you have ever experienced, and the lows, you'll be able to persist longer than anyone will. And and you know, you hear this stuff, I hear it's on my podcast all the time, but it's one thing that a lot of people throw out there, and people kind of get, uh, you know, mission, you know, you have to care about what you're doing. But at the end of the day, that really is a huge common denominator in successful people.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah, that's good. Love that quote from Phil Knight. That's good stuff. All right, Bailey, one more question before we get to our two-minute drill. It's uh kind of a common question this year. It comes from a book called The Five Graces of Life and Leadership by Gary Burnison. Good little leadership book, but it's kind of a coffee table uh hold. So it's not your typical like hold it in your hand. You got it's kind of weird. Um, but the statement is leadership. It starts with a leader, but it's not about the leader. How do you respond to that statement on leadership?

SPEAKER_03 35:44

It starts with the leader, but it's not about the leader. That's I love that actually. Um, another book, The Dichotomy of Leadership by Jocko Willink. I I I love the idea of that book's title, Dichotomy, because it's dichotomy, and it goes into what you just said the dichotomy of leading. It's about you, but it's not about you. You have to set the vision, you have to cast the vision, but at the same time, it's not just about you. And I think that goes back in that confidence, having a confident humility. You're confident, you're gonna set the vision, it is about you, but you also have humility that it's not about you. And the best leaders embody that. I mean, I there was a story, I I wound up meeting my wife in Australia on a study abroad trip, and when I was down there, I had this idea or this this epiphany or thought, whatever you want to call it. I love history, as I mentioned, I love reading. So I'm walking on this beach and I see this plaque about it's at Manley Beach, and this guy, I guess, founded surfing, I think. Maybe people people can correct me if I'm wrong, but founded surfing, so I was reading.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

I won't, I have no clue. So yeah, we we we won't correct you. Somebody else can.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

You are you are you are more than safe in this uh in this crowd, yes.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

You guys aren't surfing connoisseurs in Georgia? Yeah, but anyway, I just remember sitting there reading this, and I I saw people, they just go by me, and I just realized that you know, we can do all these things in our life, and this is gonna sound a little morbid, but but no one cared. Like this guy found his surfing, founded this beach. This beach is named after him, and people were just walking by, you know, and some people care, but it just gave me an understanding of humility of this life is not is we have to do the best of what we have with what we have in this life, but it's not about us, like it's not about our name and and getting plaques and things like that. What really translates is how we treat people, the values that we instill, the things that we do. And so I would say when I think of that quote, that's what comes to mind as being someone who is focused on treating people the right way, instilling values that transcend time, you know, instead of just thinking about ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

That's good. That's that's as humbling as anything we probably have ever been said. I mean, you could ever we, you know, we want to name everything, right? We want to put somebody's name on something, on everything, but nobody's gonna care about that. They're gonna care about who that person was. That's that's really, really, really, really good.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

But it it isn't it is important to do a really good job in whatever you're doing. Like it's not not to take away from that, but also at the same time having an understanding that we're not all that important.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

So yeah, yeah, you're you're right. That's a that's a great um mindset for sure. It's it's gotta be about other people. It's not, you know, whatever we do, that vision has to be about other people. It can't be about us as the leader. If it is, it's not gonna it's not gonna hold up, and you're not gonna maintain that leadership role because people are gonna not not enjoy it. So that's great. All right, Bailey, we're gonna get to know you a little bit better with our two-minute drill. Don kicks us off with this, so I'm gonna let him go and uh we'll have a little fun here.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

All right, here we go, Bailey. We're gonna hit you with some rapid fire questions. You just tell us the first thing that comes to your mind, okay?

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

What was the first job you ever had ever in your life? First job.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Oh, like a real job?

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Because I mean any any any any job.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Yeah, I mean, we've we've had a family farm. I painted fence, you know, all hay bells, but I would say real job was uh at a warehouse called High Court, putting putting little packages together for blockbuster. Shout out to John Benzinger.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Wow, okay. There you go. Nice, nice. All right, well what's the best result from the letter you wrote to a coach?

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Oh man, that's a great question. You know, there's I don't want to you know don't want to skip over anybody, but I think you know, probably Josh Patzner. Josh Patzer, uh, I wrote a letter to him, did not know him from Adam, and I get this call, this random number, and he called me and left me a minute and a half long voicemail just encouraging me. And so little acts of kindness like that. So that was probably one of the best responses to a letter I got, especially when I was younger.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

That's good. Uh, what song will you always turn the volume up on when you hear it?

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Oh man. Taylor Swift. I'm kidding. Uh I would say Kenny. Kenny Chesney, I go back. Uh that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Uh, yeah, that's a good one. All right, let's get into your um your after-coaching world a bit. Best partner in a house flip, a contractor or a designer.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Or maybe there's somebody else that's a better partner.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

The bank.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah, I do, I do. You had a look on your face like we didn't ask the right one, and I had a feeling that's that's who you're that's good.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

That's good. All three are equally important. So there you go.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Yeah, that's that's really good. All right, so we're gonna play uh a little game of hot hot or not. So these are hot takes. So unpopular opinions, maybe, that you feel strongly about. So we'll say the sentence. If you agree with it, you say hot. If you disagree with it, you say not.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Talent is overrated compared to culture. Hot.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Hot or not here. A fat guy's burger is better than one from Ron's in Tulsa.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Uh not.

unknown 41:15

All right.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Uh the gathering place in Tulsa is worth the hype. Hot.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

100%. Come on to Tulsa, check it out, see for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah, I think uh Dustin just had to take some of our other friends there this summer. They they knew all about it, so Dustin had to take him over there too.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

You'll feel like a kid again.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Oh, okay. May have to check that out next summer when I'm in Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

All right, flipping a house with bullet holes in the walls is worth it.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

It is worth it. It is worth it.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

It's good. All right, good deal. All right, so we've asked all of our guests. We've used uh Brett Ludbutter's uh 365 questions uh for this question. So what I need for you to do is pick a number between one and 365.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

365.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Oh wow, okay. Yeah, first one to do that.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

This could be this could maybe not be good. I don't know how he ends this book.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Maybe do you know do you know Brett?

SPEAKER_03 42:13

You know Brett? I don't know Brett, yeah. I I've seen his stuff. He he has great content.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Yeah, he he is an excellent question uh asker, let's just say. All right. I'm a little worried now. All right, here we go. You should be. Uh all right, you know yourself better than anyone. What would be your biggest hesitation in following you as a leader? Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

That may be the easiest one in the book.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Yeah, yeah. Biggest hesitation in following lead. That's a that's a great question. I don't know. It's a really telling I mean. Welcome to this world. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting. I think sometimes I'm very consistent at certain things, but it's easy for me to like to do a lot of stuff. So all these things that I'm trying to work on, like it's it's are things that that matter to me. So maybe that consistency to make sure I'm focused on the right thing. Um and I think that that's the idea of alignment. There's this idea that I've been working with it is alignment. And in my life, I want to be aligned with the values, the direction of my life. At the same time, there's always gonna be things that are gonna come at me that are gonna get me off track. And I just gotta make sure that I adjust back to being that alignment. Um and I would say that's probably the thing I work on the most. And I don't know if that that would be something. That's a great question. So I don't know. Maybe that's maybe that's my answer for now.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Fair fair enough, trust me. We interviewed him and we were scared to death as to who was gonna get asked a question from him because that's what he does. He turns, and luckily Josh caught it right between the eyes. So it was uh it worked for me. Um now speaking of alignment, uh now those of that are listening to this, they're not gonna see this, but on YouTube, you have uh a perfectly aligned. Books behind you. Okay? I mean that I mean you I you've you've done a very good job with that, first of all. So which book behind you would be your first choice if we asked you to give us a book recommendation? We've talked about several books today. But if you had to turn around and give us one, what would it be?

unknown 44:17

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

Um first I gotta I gotta go look back.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Uh yeah, I thought you might just turn around and grab one and say, here it is.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

Yeah. You know, one that's one that's maybe a little different. It's not your typical book, but there's a book called Halftime. And and halftime is more mostly for people that are kind of in the halftime of their life, but I read that at a young age, and it had tremendous impact on me because it gave me perspective that I necessarily wouldn't have had if I read it when I'm 50. And so I I've really enjoyed that book. Um But there's a lot, there's a lot, but that one comes to mind that might be a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

It's good, good choice. Um, all right. Who has influenced your leadership the most?

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Yeah, I'm thankful I had great parents, obviously. But there's been so many people in my life, that's a tough question. There's a guy in Tulsa called his name's Dave Good, he's got a program called Your One Degree, and Your One Degree helps people hone in on basically out of 360 degrees in life, you have one degree that's unique to you, utilizing your God-given gifts, talents, and abilities. And he's been such a great leadership mentor in my life here locally. And I I would say I would say him right now, but there's been so many people uh in my journey that have helped me and helped me grow in leadership, it's really tough to just say one person.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Yeah, talk about that one more time. What was his name?

SPEAKER_03 45:45

His name's Dave Jewett. He's got a program called Your One Degree.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Your One Degree, okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Yep, and he's he's helped people hone in the your their one degree all over the world. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

That's good stuff. All right. All right, let's finish with this. It's our trademark question today. Bailey Miles, you've been hanging with the ADs, but let's say you can hang out with anyone. Who would that be and why?

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Outside of my family, because I'm I I do it's a cliche, but I'm very thankful that I have great parents that and my wife, gosh, I mean, those that's the people I want to hang out with. Um, you know, obviously, I'm sure Jesus is an answer. You probably get that W one, that would be great, even though have a relationship, but physically being with him would be awesome. Oh, John John Wooden. I would say John Wooden. John Wooden would be similar. Love love to go back. I've read every single one of his books or that have he's written or been about him, but he aligns 100% with the type of person that I want to be, and coach I want to be, and leader I want to be. So that that'd be 100% the guy that I'd want to sit down with.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

That's a great answer. Bailey, thank you so much for taking the time today and for using your platform uh to pour into leaders as we all chase excellence and what we do. Thanks again for the time.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. I love your guys' podcast, and I get to learn anytime I listen to it, and I just thank you guys for having me on. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Well, it was great to be joined by Bailey Miles, host of the Building Excellence podcast, former coach, former basketball player to collegiate level. Uh now he coaches high school basketball, as he mentioned, out in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area. So, Bailey, thanks for joining us. Thank you for doing what you do on your podcast because you make us better uh in the leadership world and how to achieve excellence. But uh man, this was a great conversation. Some of my takeaways were how Bailey continuously talked about confident humility and not really heard those two put together, but loved his definition and his description of leaders having confident humility. He said that a couple times. I think that's uh worth learning and focusing on. Tell me, give your best every day and try to get better every day is a part of building excellence there. And then him just talking about how he has created a curiosity and a desire to learn from others. I love how he said he was sat down and talked to John Shire about what Coach K did great. But you could tell Bailey has learned from a lot of people over his years and has made him a great leader, and we were able to learn from him today. So thank you, Bailey, for joining us. And uh thank you for listening. If you would, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on the podcast platform you're listening from. That helps us be heard by others and get up there in the uh searches on the online searches. We appreciate that. And as always, thank you for spending your time hanging with the 80s.