SPEAKER_01 0:04

You're listening to the Hanging with the AD podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and lessons learned through leadership. Now here are your hosts, Jonathan Matthews and Don Baker. Welcome to this episode of the Hang with the AD Podcast. Today we're joined by Dr. Patrick Irving, Director of Athletics for Pittsburgh Schools in the Rochester, New York area. Patrick is the first New York athletic director that we've had on the show, and he brings an incredible perspective from his journey through four AD top since 2011 and now leading a department of over 115 teams across two high schools. In this episode, Patrick shares how Pittsburgh's unique setup blends both school-specific and combined teams, including football, and the dynamics that come with managing such a large program. We also dive into his philosophy of building a culture where every student can belong, be challenged, and feel supported. Patrick opens up about his service on the NIAA Publications Committee, the power of writing as a leadership tool, and even what advice he'd give his younger self just starting out as an A B. We'll talk about leading with president, the importance of mission and core values, and how they show up daily in Pittsburgh Athletics. Whether you're a veteran administrator or just getting started, you'll find plenty of insight and inspiration in this conversation. Let's settle in and get to know Dr. Patrick Irving.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Patrick, we're so glad to have you joining Don and me for this episode of the Hanging with EAD. I believe you're our first athletic director guest from the state of New York. So glad to have you uh with us today. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, so for our listeners, Dr. Patrick Irving is the director of athletics for Pittsford Schools in Pittsford, New York, which is in the Rochester area. Patrick served as AD over four different stops since uh 2011 when he landed there in Pittsford. Uh well, I guess he landed uh in Pittsford a little later, but he served as uh AD in four different places since 2011. Patrick is involved at the local, state, and national level as an athletic administrator. He serves as co-chair of the education committee for the NYSAA. And at the NIAA level, he's a contributing member of the Publications Committee, where I have seen Patrick do a lot of great work. And he has also recently completed the QPA uh program. Um uh he and I did that alongside each other. So it's been great to be in the same circle with Patrick. He's also a member of the Rochester, New York Sports Commission Advisory Council. And uh the last thing I want to say, and we'll get deeper into this in a minute, Patrick's athletic department setup is very unique, uh very different than most of ours. And he leads a program or programs, you'll you'll understand that in a few minutes, of 115 teams through grade seven through 12, which is uh very interesting. And like I said, we'll jump into that in just a few minutes. But before we do that, let's stop right there. Let Patrick tell us a little bit more about his journey through athletics. Patrick, we call it the back of the baseball card bio. So tell us what the back of Patrick Irving's baseball card would look like.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yeah, and and thanks guys for having me. Proud to be the first from New York uh to visit. But uh um, I guess the back of my baseball card would would hopefully start with uh, you know, I'm a father to our daughter Ash and a partner to to Tracy and uh love my family and the time we get together. Um you know, I I I guess something that's really impacted me in my career is when I think about my childhood. I was uh I was that that kid that was in every rec program growing up uh in little leagues and and in the scouts, um uh in in different clubs and in athletics in the school district. Um and that really has impacted me and why I do the work that I do. Um it's uh I really pride myself in in giving back to the community and and and I find a lot of um I really love what I do and and my childhood has really uh uh built that foundation uh for why I continue to do this work. Um but really at the end of the day, um, you know, I I I guess I just hope uh hope the basket back of my baseball card wouldn't have too many stats on there, but uh it would uh would really just say I'm a good family man that that tries to do good work for my community. And uh I love that it's it's based in athletics and and I know you both share this, but you know the impact it can have on a community when when you lead a department that um uh has strong role models, um, strong ethics and core values, and and you see it uh play out day uh day in and day out.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah, that's good. I mean, you talk about trying to do good work for your community, and that's where we want to go next and talk about that athletic department that I kind of set up and how it's um truly community-based over really two communities, I guess. Uh, but it's it's very, very unique. Looking at your athletic department as we did some homework, it revealed the uniqueness of it. Uh, but uh I, you know, I don't think it's more common than we realize, but maybe it is in New York. I don't know. You have two high schools in your district, and y'all have some teams that are specific to each school, but some programs are combined uh over the two schools, including football. And I need to say alpine skiing because we don't get to talk to people who have uh alpine skiing very often. So those those sports, specifically football and some others, are combined over two high schools. Talk about how your athletic department of over a hundred teams is set up and the dynamics that come into play when two schools merge in some sports, but in others they compete against each other. That's uh that's just strange.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, it's it's it it definitely is interesting and it's the challenge. Uh it was one of the things that really uh drew me to the opening here. Um, you know, so we you're you're right, uh Josh. We we have two high schools, Mendon and Sutherland High School, um, that have their own athletic programs. Uh, but in a lot of our sports, uh, well, I shouldn't say a lot, but many of our sports, we do merge uh for various reasons. Um, and uh so we have the we have the Vikings, we have the Knights, and then when we merge, we're the Panthers. So when you did your homework and you saw the the overview shot, you might see on uh one of our stadiums, you'll see a Panther Paul in the end zone, but you might see a Sutherland Knight uh on that field as well. Uh same if you were to go over to Mendon uh and see that too. So it creates a really interesting dynamic where our kids here locally grow up playing with one another, competing against uh one another. Uh, and then when they get to the high school program, uh they may be merged together in their in their respective sport, or they might be competing against uh kids from across town. Um and we and we actually really encourage it. We this this year, and this is my third year here in Pittsburgh, but um for the last two years, we've set up Homecoming Week where all week long our modified programs, which is our middle school programs, and our JV Varsity programs are playing one another that entire week in home uh during that homecoming week. And we get great crowds, as you can imagine. The um all those games, um, the community really comes out. Uh, we do our we do our Hall of Fame uh that Friday night. We do a parade as well. Um, and that competition really brings out the community, even when we're playing ourselves. So, yes, it's unique. Um, and it it it makes me uh I become very I'm hyper aware of what color I'm wearing, uh where I'm standing, when I'm cheering, uh, what polo or what hat I might have on as I'm as I'm going to games uh throughout the year.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah, it's funny that you say that. I was just at a game recently, and I'm our district colors are red, white, black uh predominantly. And um, I was at a game where one of the teams um is a red and black team. The other one has black as a color of theirs as well as white. Um and when I showed up and had a red polo on. And I mean they were real quick to let me know that they were offended by that. And and especially that other one. They were like, you know, white and black. You those you could have worn either one of those too. And I spent 18 years at that school. So they they were a little uh the header feelings hurt a little bit on that one. So I share you, I share your pain on that one.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Yeah, and Don on that point, you know, my first year, we do a big event that's actually going to have its 25th anniversary this year. It's called the Rainbow Classic. Both our girls' basketball programs play one another, and our boys' basketball programs play one another at the University of Rochester. And we raise money for the Galisano Children's Hospital, and we on average annually raise around $30,000 and we do a big check ceremony. Uh, but at that game, the first year, I wore a maroon tie, uh, which is the Mendon's side. I wore a blue suit, which is the Sutherland side. I got yelled at for wearing a blue suit. I got yelled at for wearing a blue tie. So, what I did after that game, uh, I went to a local vendor, I had them split a sweater. I have blue on one side, maroon on another, Pittsford across the chest. And then during those games and at our parades and other times we're playing each other, I don't care how hot it is, I am wearing that sweater and don't say anything about it.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

That's good. Hey, but that's really good. I like it, and it's humor there. But you said something I kind of want you to expand on because I do think it's important. Education-based athletics is about community, community-based and growing community. Obviously, you have two communities, as you said, compete, playing with one another and playing against one another. What do those two dynamics have to do um with the growth of your community and the pride? Yeah, there's two different schools, but at the end of the day, y'all are Pittsford, right? And just talk about how that unique dynamic plays into a uh the strengthening of your ultimate community.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Yeah, I think it's a good question. We um, like I was saying, when we compete against one another, those games are, I would say, our most competitive contests. I don't care which sport it is. Um the community comes out, they want to see that play. We often see each other in sectionals, which is our uh our playoff, um, our postseason play. Uh and it's it it it's great because um, you know, people like to say, oh, Patrick, you you're guaranteed a win today. Well, I also say, well, I'm guaranteed a loss too. And and and that's not why we do this, but um, you know, our our students learn to win with grace, especially when they're playing against people that they're friends with or that they know in their entire life. Uh, and they learn to to lose and remain resilient to come back. Uh because the very next season they might be playing with someone on the opposite team uh in their next sport. Um so I really think it fortifies education-based athletics, our district's core values. It makes things unique, keeps me on my toes, and um it makes every day different. And uh that's one of the things that keeps uh keeps me uh coming back for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Patrick, speaking of values, you've described Pittsford Athletics as a place where students can belong, be challenged, and feel supported. That's an ideal many schools strive for, I would think. How do you bring it to life in your programs? Maybe how do you make sure that that philosophy truly includes every student who might want to get involved? You know, we talked about before we got on the call, your graduating class is roughly around 250. Uh, there will be people that are listening to this that have graduating classes that are better part of a thousand, right? So when you look at in the activation, I guess, of those ideals, how what does it look like in practice?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, you know, when I think about supporting kids and in and really creating that environment, um, we're always looking for opportunities to give student voice uh opportunities to lead, uh, not only through our coaches, but through the athletic office. So as you're asking that question, Don, I'm writing down some notes here. You know, we started using student athletes as photographers that we then use in our handbooks, on our websites, uh, and different promotions that we do. Uh, and that's been and that's been great, especially as the as media continues to evolve. And I'm sure that's happening in your area as well. Um, just with social media and other platforms that just continue to grow. We're really trying to use our student athletes to to meet that challenge. Um but we also work to bring student voice. And you know, it's funny, right before we jumped on this call, we have a student intern who's an athlete in our department who's helping us with everything that's coming in as we prepare for the start of the fall season. So we have boxes everywhere, and she's been helping us. And uh I think anytime you can you can really use student athletes, give them responsibilities, um, trust them, uh, give them parameters, but support them through a process, you're really helping build the the program uh and and and you're giving back giving back to your kids. And um it's not just the games. There, there's there's so much more to it. And those are just a couple of quick examples.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

I think that you you said something too that that kind of uh was a light bulb for me, too. That that idea of activating all the kids in your building, right? So I know that you're you're you're talking about those student athletes, but there are kids in your building that probably aren't. But they probably are really good when it comes to operating the camera or helping the PA game or whatever. And I think that that's something that we don't really tap into as much, is when you're talking about an athletic department just being focused on student athletes, I think if you broaden that scope a little bit to bring in all the kids, there's an unbelievable amount of talent in any school building, right? It's just a matter of tapping into them. And then all of a sudden they feel connected. They feel brought into that athletic department when before they weren't. We saw them when we added esports. There were kids that they were never going to score a touchdown, right? But now they're winning things like athlete of the week because they're a part of the athletic department. And it brought them in and it's really kind of created a whole new subset of athlete in our building, which brought in a kid that wouldn't have been recognized before. Uh and so I think that that's a that's that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yeah, and and Don, we've we another quick example that's easy to do is we're we're working with students with graphic design. You mentioned there's countless kids in every high school that are so much more talented in in certain fields than than I ever will be. And that's definitely one of them. And so we use students, we update um you know, logos for some of our philanthropic game. I mentioned um the rainbow classic, Pink Dereek is another one where we raise money for breast cancer research. We we have students update those logos annually. We we promote them, we highlight them in those programs and on social media. And that's just another way to bring in students who may or may not be student athletes that want to give back to their community and and all the benefits, in my opinion, of athletics, of education-based athletics, then just continues to grow. Um, and then your influence uh within a community just continues to grow with it.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah, that's good stuff. Really like to uh hear about getting all those people involved and and you know, just man, I the ideas that are going through my mind right now as you talk about that, having having a kind of an intern you just said in your building right now, who's one of your athletes. That's a great idea to have someone work in the summertime for you. Uh Patrick, we're gonna change gears a little bit in the middle of this thing, talk about your national involvement. And uh, as I mentioned, you serve on the NIAA Publications Committee, uh, which requires some fairly laborious work to produce a quarterly IAA magazine. And most uh or all NIAA members listening should be receiving that magazine either virtually or uh in hand. Uh talk to all athletic administrators, whether um they'd like to write or they write an article or anything, but talk about uh how or excuse me, why an athletic administrator could and should be writing an article to potentially be published in this magazine? Why should an AD take a few minutes to just to write? Uh, what should they write about? And and from your experience, what does writing an article do for one's leadership? And I know I ask a lot there, but basically just take that whole vision of writing and what you've seen being on this committee and and convince athletic directors to be writers of what they do and what they experience.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yeah, and and that's a great question, Josh. You know, um first off, I'll say this is I I believe I'm going into my fourth year on the publications committee. Like most things with the NIAA, just like in the New York State AAA in our local area. Uh, the training we have uh through our associations is the best leadership training I've had. And the publication is no different. Um, you know, I get to read a lot of articles along with our the publication committee. Um, they come in all the time. We're constantly reviewing them, grading them. Uh, we meet a couple times a year to then review our grades and our comments to see how they get placed, where they get placed, if we send them back to the author for updates and clarification. So that process is great. And I get to really the benefit of being on the committee is I get to read what people are thinking about and how it applies to their work. And sometimes it's it's ready for publication and we place it. Other times we bounce ideas off of them. They may update it and send it back. And it's really cool to see those things then be in print in the quarterly magazine. But uh, why write? I don't know. I think I there's lots that I write about that I never create as an article. Um, I'm I I'm publishing there in the media minute, and I I review podcasts like yourself, which I remember meeting Don, I think it was in Tennessee, and we talked and we did one on this podcast, which is great. Um, and then different books uh that we're reading and other platforms that that we promote. Um, but I think just the act of writing helps leaders um craft what they believe. Um I'm always working on, I teach a graduate class at Sunny Brockboard too for athletic administrators, and we do what we call philosophical statements, and they're big statements on about leadership, and they evolve throughout the semester. And I think it's important just for people to really grapple with what they think leadership should be, and it's okay for it to be different throughout the course of a semester, throughout the course of your career, and it really should be. Because truthfully, I'm more curious today about this job that I've been in. Uh it was my 20th year in education, 13th as an ED. I'm more curious about this work than I was when I started. And I think that's a good thing. Um, that we're continuing to ask questions. And um so yeah, it I think it's important for for athletic directors to to read and and to write what they believe and and what they know so they can continue to look at it and try to own it because ultimately you're it's gonna be better for your kids. And really, just as a shameless plug for the publications committee, you know, we we put a lot of work in the magazine. There's uh there's um uh uh promos in the magazine on how you can write and the QR codes and where you can send them. Um, but you know, you can always send them to our chairperson, you can send them to me. I'm happy to make uh my my uh um email and anything else available to to your listeners, uh, just so we can hopefully get some more people published and some some new voices that we haven't heard from.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

That's really good. You talk about you mentioned this kind of leads into my next question, it that idea of evolving uh in in the role. And in that question previously, all right, you were talking to others. All right. Now I want to I want you to talk to yourself. You don't necessarily have to talk back to yourself because that makes you crazy. But I just want you to talk to yourself. If you could write a short letter to Patrick Irving, who was just starting out as an AD, what would it say? What what lessons, warnings, maybe, or or even encouragement would you include to help him navigate those early years of leadership? What would you tell him?

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Well, that's a that's another great question. Honestly, I would probably tell myself that it's okay that every day is different. And there are going to be days that you come to work with a plan and you leave work having not having addressed any of it, and you have more work tomorrow than you started with today. And and that happens. Uh, and you're shaking your head down. So I'm sure you can you can relate to that. Yep. Um you know, it when I started out, I I probably uh, and this is something I'm thinking about a lot, is how I how I choose to use my time and how I try not to let others distract me from um deviating from that. And look, emergencies come up and we have to pivot. And that's part of anybody leading a you know a large organization, even a small one. Um, but really, the more I think about it, our time and what we choose to dedicate that to is probably our our biggest commodity. And and and we really need to stay focused in those high leverage tasks that impact students and um and and support our coaches, um, and and really try to live in that as much as possible. Because if we're just putting out fires um all day long. You you're not gonna be getting those large goals, those large tasks that I know every AD across the country uh set for themselves and they they work hard to to try to reach. So I tried to tell myself that if I if I was a really much smarter person I and I had the actual answer 20 years ago, uh I would have written the book that would have solved the problem. But um you know, try to really focus and and and don't get distracted in the small things. Um live in live in that high-leverage place where we can really impact kids and and and support your culture so they can do the work um that those kids will remember the rest of their lives.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

That's uh man, that's really good. I heard the I heard the um word the other day used. It was called executive. You know, and and talking about leadership and executive leadership, and I don't think that gets used a lot or really thought of or kicked around a lot in education. We go from teacher to coach to assistant principal to principal, and we never get taught or get talked to about at some point in time in there, whether it's athletic director leadership or principal AP, superintendent, whatever, we become executive in certain levels, and that executive level does exactly what you're saying. It gets out of the minutiae, it gets out of the fires, and lives at a higher level. I like that high leverage. Man, that was really good uh uh description of being an executive leader at times, and which we have to do. Great, great, great description there. So recently I was listening to one of our former guests, his name's Clay Scrogins, and he has a podcast called the How to Podcast, or excuse me, the how to lead podcast. He was talking about an encounter he had with former Home Depot CEO Frank Blake while they were delayed in an airport. Uh, I don't know if you've listened to it, it was a great podcast. Um, he was summarizing this great CEO's leadership style through a handful of bullet points, one of which being what it was lead with presence. And I just thought, man, that's that's great. Uh Frank Frank Blake was talking about he he was a leader with presence. Uh, I thought if that's true, then leading Home Depot is similar to leading as an athletic director, right? Very similar similarities. Talk about the importance of an AD leading with presence. Uh, and and and have you had tangible results that stem from leading with presence?

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Yeah. Um, again, really great question. Uh you know, when when you ask that, I think of I think about visibility and accessibility. So when I'm at contests or if I'm in the building, you know, who has access to me? Um uh where do they see me? I often think in a district where look, we have one large program that has three different components to it. Um, you know, I I like to think, you know, which level of contests am I attending today? Uh, which buildings am I in are are am I in? Um and I also think you you mentioned Alpine earlier, too. You know, it matters when I drive 45 minutes to the local mountains and I'm in and I'm in full snow gear and boots, and I'm trying my hardest not to fall in front of all those kids so they're gonna make fun of me the next day. That's good. It it matters, it matters to those kids, it matters to those coaches and those those families when I'm up there and it's 20 degrees out there. And um so I'm I'm up it, you know, you can't just stand at the soccer game or the football game or or whatever that sport might be in your community that people think is is is the quote unquote big sport. Yeah, you you gotta get to everything, and um you can't be everywhere always. Um, so again, it goes back to that time. How how do you how do you leverage your time to make sure everyone has access to you and you remain visible?

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah, that's good. You just did a commercial for why it's important to be a member to NIAA. Because uh some of us are never going to ever encounter anyone else uh in our small circles in our communities that go to alpine skiing, right? Uh beach volleyball, whatever it is, the the the the value of being a member with uh someone else who gets to experience something totally different, uh, but still doing the same job of athletic administrator is huge. And that's I mean, you said a lot there with visibility and accountability, but what you said was it's important to be a member and and create a network where people do things different than you do so you can learn lessons from them. And that's what we just did right there. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Yeah. Yeah, and honestly, when when you said commercial, it sounded like I I was doing a commercial for like North Face Jackets or something, and you need those for for games and when you're standing on mountains. But yeah, it it it it it's important to be present. And honestly, when I'm standing on the sideline or if I'm on the mountain or I'm at a swim meet or whatever it is, you know, you have to think your community that you might be the only administrator that that the community has access to in person on a day-to-day basis. And and you guys are shaking your head. I have no doubt it's the same in your play. You can serve as the conduit for them about something unrelated to athletics that just matters so much to their their family and their kids. Uh, I can't tell you how many, how many things I've been able to say, hey, I know who you need to talk to, or hey, let me send that person a message, they'll reach you in the morning, just because you're there doing your thing. Uh and uh and that that family member, that student or or that um that parent in the in the community has access to somebody. So it's not just it's not just moving soccer goals and making sure the the PA system works. It's it's you're really a resource in person when when you're when you're there with everybody.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Let's kind of dig into that just a little bit, that idea of knowing kind of the way that you're built and then how we actually bring that to life. When we were preparing for today, we found your athletic department's handbook, really loved how easy it is to read, uh, how clearly it's laid out. Uh, right there on page two, you've got your mission statement, your core values, uh, your vision are front and center. How do those serve as a guide for you and your team? And why do you think they're essential really for any organization? But they've got to show up in the everyday real world, right? They've got to work for your staff. They can't just be words on a page. Maybe, maybe talk about that. How do you bring that to life?

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Yeah, you guys did a deep dive. I love it. I, you know, I uh I didn't know you guys did so much research. That's great. Um, yeah, we built that my first year um here at Pittsford, and it was a great process. There are a lot of people involved, uh, coaches, a lot of kids involved, which we really loved. And um, and those photos that are in that handbook were uh almost entirely taken by our student photographers as well. So again, just uh a collaborative process. You know, tomorrow I have our coaches workshop. Uh and it's our seasonal coaches workshop. Uh it's our largest one because our fall has the most sports. We talk missions, we talk vision, we talk at times when you're into the the dog days of a season and it's long. Um, what do you revert back to uh when you know it it's hard to get up the next day? Maybe you had a tough game, a tough loss, a bad bus ride home, or something happened that was unexpected. Maybe a kid got hurt, and and you know, and that's challenging too for coaches. Um when you see kids that are struggling in that way. Um you have to revert back to something that is a shared value, uh a shared goal and a shared mission. And and that's why on page two you saw that, Don. Um uh it's important. And and those are those are district goals and and district core values that we just we use as well in athletics, like like all of our buildings in their day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah, it's good. Really enjoyed how y'all put that together. It's it's interesting you say it was put together by students as well. So that's uh y'all, y'all have a great collaborative process as well. We're learning here in this conversation. It's really cool. Patrick, we're gonna finish with one more question before we get into our two-minute drill. And we've asked this question to all of our guests here in 2025. It comes from a statement in a book called The Five Graces of Life and Leadership by Gary Burnison, a small, so a little small coffee table book on leadership. The statement is leadership. It starts with a leader, but it's not about the leader. How do you respond to that statement on leadership?

SPEAKER_02 30:37

It starts with a leader, but it's not about the leader. Uh I respond to that as no organization, no team, um school building or district. It can't just be about one person because if it is, when that person leaves, you know, the program falters, it falls apart. Uh, you really have to build structures, teams, programs um that are about something more than uh one person, maybe one coach, maybe one athletic director, or one star student athlete. It's gotta be it's gotta be about something more than that. And you know, we just talk core values and mission. If it's not about that, if it's not about um, you know, some of the philanthropic things we do here in our department, in our district, where our kids are giving back um to causes of real need in our community, um, those are the things kids are gonna remember. Uh, if you're if you're not building that into um the batter of what the department's trying to accomplish, um it's a misstep. But it's also hard. Uh there are a lot of things we are always working on. We are not a finished product, and you know, spoiler alert, our department is never gonna be a finished product because because no one can be you're constantly evolving, you're constantly looking for improvement. Uh things that you might have thought of were buttoned up like years ago, and you know, you gotta pivot, you gotta change. Things things change, kids change, coaches change, um, uh districts change. So um yeah, I think that's how I how I'd really think about that. Is that that I think that's that's really what comes to mind. Do you cook? Do you bake? Do I cook? Do I bake? You know, I just um this is kind of a funny personal thing, as I was um, you know, I I recently started running a lot, competing a lot in endurance training, and I've needed to change my diet and how I'm cooking. And for 12 years prior to this, I was a vegetarian. I was a strict vegetarian. I started incorporating me, so I've been I've been grilling a lot more. Um and so I I don't bake, I eat a lot of baked goods. I do like that. So uh I'm a connoisseur on that one, but uh, I've been grilling a lot lately, especially this summer, and uh and it's been a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

You just said uh you just said the analogy or or metaphor there, build into the batter. Yeah, I I'd never heard that before. That was a great, great, uh, yeah, great uh uh description of building a foundation, building a program. And that's why I had to ask that. I I I would never have used that, even though I like to make brownies and cookies and stuff. I probably build batter more than I build it here in my program.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Well, not not only not only that, it's you you talked about it, you know, it's an ever uh it's it's so funny because I wrote the exact same thing down, Josh. But the the the idea that culture is a constant recipe. It reminds me of my mom. Like when I call my mom, I'm like, how do you make this sauce? And she's there is no measurement, right? Like I'm looking for, I need a quarter cup of this, or what? And she's like, I just throw this in there and throw it. So every single time it's a little different, but it's all working toward that same thing. Uh, and I think that that like we really just stumbled into a rabbit hole there. That that was that was really good.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah, I'm gonna use that phrase again. I'm gonna I'm gonna quote you. Hopefully, I give you credit for it. Build into the batter. That's good stuff. Patrick, you said a lot of great stuff in there. I know people are gonna want to uh rewind and take notes uh on the on the on the the juice there. That was good stuff. So thanks uh for making us better leaders, but we're gonna jump in and get to know you a little bit better with our two-minute drill here.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

All right, Patrick. We're gonna hit you with some rapid fire questions. You just tell us the first thing that comes to your mind, okay?

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

What was the first job you had ever in your life, ever?

SPEAKER_02 34:25

First job I've ever I ever had, one of the probably my best job too. Uh when I was 11, 12, and 13 before middle school sports took over my life. I was a paper boy. I delivered the afternoon Times Union paper. Best job I ever had. Cash business, too.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

There you go. It's good.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

All right, game day snack, you can't live without. I'll be honest with you. I am not good at eating during the day. It is amazing. I get to my desk before I know it. Uh uh, it it's it's the night. Uh, but uh I'm gonna say a protein bar. I I I consume a healthy amount of those.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Okay, on the flip side of healthy, ice cream in a comb or in a cup? What do you prefer?

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Cough, hands down cuff. You can fill more in there if you have a cup.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Oh, there you go. All right. One TV show or movie you always watch if you see a tone.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Maybe Seinfeld, maybe curb your enthusiasm. I'm a big fan of Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld. So those normally stop me.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

All right, good deal. Now let's play a game of hot or not. So these are things that are either a hot take or they're not. So an unpopular opinion that people feel strongly about. So if we're gonna say the phrase, if you agree with it, you say hot. If you disagree, you say not. Okay. Burgers are better without lettuce. Says the vegetarian.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

All right, the TV show The Office is overrated. Uh is overrated? Nah.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

All right. Uh interesting answer here. Talking to a guy in New York. College football is greater than the NFL.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Well, that's I definitely disagree with that. Uh definitely. I'm a huge Bills fan. And uh and you guys are Georgia people, right? So when we just re-signed uh James Cook, I said we, like I was a part of it. Uh just uh James Cook today to a four-year extension. So that's big news around here.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

I think if you get the further south you get, you're gonna get a different answer for that question.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

I agree. I agree. Yeah, I was gonna say it was a great conversation until that answer. That's good. All right, last hot or not, Christmas music before Thanksgiving should be banned. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Yeah. It just uh honestly, you go you talked about Home Depot the other day, Eric earlier. I feel like those themed things come in earlier and earlier every year. I feel like there's Halloween stuff in like July in those stores. Uh and yeah, yeah, that that Christmas music uh leaks in before Thanksgiving now.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

All right. Next uh next question. So we this season have been asking our guest uh question out of Brett Leadbetter's uh what drives winning? Um 365 questions, but so what we want you to do is you pick a number between 365.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

73.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Okay, here we go. You know yourself better than anyone. What would be your biggest hesitation with trusting yourself?

SPEAKER_02 37:40

My biggest hesitation with trusting myself. Um I don't know. I do oh gosh, that's a good question. My biggest.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Yeah, welcome to Brett Ludvetter.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Yeah, thanks, Brett. Um, you know, I do have a couple people in my life. One is Tracy. I mentioned her earlier in my partner. Like I do bounce a lot off of her, um, especially with personal decisions. It's amazing. I was just talking with some people the other day um how at work you can be so buttoned up. You have such great processes for making decisions, and then your personal life can just be you you just make hair brain decisions at at the drop of the hat. And I I I can relate to that, where I can be in multi-million dollar capital projects working with our district doing doing things, and then at the house, I can make a real quick, stupid decision. So um, yeah, I I really I really like uh having a few people in my in my circle to help me make some of those decisions. So I guess I also question myself to answer that question.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Uh your hesitation is shared by the other two people on this call, by the way. So you're good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

It's good. All right, what's the most important leadership skill in 2025?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

I think to be curious. Uh I love asking questions. I love trying to understand why things happen and how they happen. Um to go with that, I think it's really important to listen. Um ultimately you have to act. And sometimes that act is are there's tough decisions and they're not always great. Uh, but I think remaining curious, I always tell people remain curious. It's why uh it's why I like to read, it's why I like doing the media minute for the publications committee. It's um it I like to continue to think about what we do and why we do it.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

That's the same. Yeah, that same philosophy was in that Clay Scrogan's how to lead podcast episode. Um they thought about being curious as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

That's good. Uh all right, now if we can figure this one out, we'll just buy an island somewhere and be done with it. Okay. Uh and it's real quick one on hiring. So the first thing you look for when hiring a coach or a staff member, what is that first thing, that uh that first impression or that first thing that you look for?

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Um the why. Why why are they interested in the opening? And and and I'm always surprised when people can't answer that question. Uh and and honestly, I I've said in interviews when people say, Well, I saw the posting and so I'm here. If you can't talk about our district or our program or some history or something that that uh uh shows that you did some research and we're not just a paycheck or a stipend or something, um uh you you'll get me interested in you as a candidate. You can really tell that why I'm interested.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

That's funny. What was just in an interview over the summer? What what is it about this place that intrigues you? I don't really know much about it. Well, thank you for your time, sir. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Okay, let's finish with this. It's our trademark question today. Dr. Patrick Irvey, you've been hanging with the ADs, but let's say you can hang out with anyone, who would that be and why? I can hang out with that outside my family.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Um That's a real good question, too. You know, historically, I'd love to hang out with some of our earliest presidents, maybe just to kind of pick their brain about that process. Uh, I love reading presidential history, you know, but from the athletic standpoint, I had one poster in my um in my bedroom growing up. It was a Don Maddenly poster, huge New York Yankees fan, even though fantasy baseball kind of ruined my allegiance to any uh individual team. Uh, you know, he's he was, you know, uh fantastic athlete, fantastic Yankee, and a head coach as well. Too. I'd love to just sit and pick his brain for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Good deal. Patrick, thank you so much for the time today and and also for your efforts uh on the publications committee helping others get better through your work there. Uh keep up the great work and thanks again.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Yeah, thanks for everything you guys do. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Well, that was a great conversation with Patrick Irving from New York. Patrick, thanks for joining us today and helping us to get better at our leadership role in athletic administration. Now, if you were like me, you were kind of scratching your head at the beginning, trying to figure out how Patrick led an athletic department of two schools where they compete against each other, but then in some sports they can merge and compete with each other. Very, very unique situation. But after listening to this conversation, you know why a leader like Patrick can handle that. I mean, he is very astute in his leadership, in his capacity, and um very strategic too, having shirts of all three athletic departments in his car at all times. That was great uh comment and strategy there that Patrick shared. But he shared a lot of more wisdom and nuggets and just uh extremely great information. I love when he talked about time as our biggest commodity. He was in that conversation about writing a letter to a younger Patrick Irving, and uh he just said, if you just put out fires all day, you won't reach your large-scale goals or your large goals. Man, how appropriate is that? It's easy to get it bogged down in the email and minutiae without leveraging our high-level desires and goals. Then he went on to talk about visibility and accessibility. Who has access to me? And that most of our communities, the only administrator they have access to is the athletic director. How appropriate was that comment? I agree. We are at all the games and you are too. And Patrick hit the nail on the head. But then just to finish off the conversation, just as a reminder, in the dog days of a long season, what do you talk about? That hit me right between the eyes. What are we talking to our coaches about, especially during their season when they are in the middle of it and they need a breath of fresh air most of the time? Am I being that breath of fresh air? So, Patrick, thanks for those reminders. Man, what a great conversation this was. I would look up Patrick and reach out to him and draw from his astute wisdom there. He is just such a phenomenal leader of three different athletic departments. What a great, uh, great uh situation to be in there. Well, thank you for spending your time here with us today. We'd love for you to like and review our podcast. Give us your comments on Patrick's conversation. We always appreciate reading those. And as always, thank you for spending your time hanging with the ADs.