SPEAKER_02 0:04

You're listening to the Hanging with the AD podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and lessons learned through leadership. Now, you're your hosts, Josh Matthews and Don Baker. Welcome back to another episode of the Hanging with the AD Podcast, where we sit down with leaders who are making a lasting impact in the world of athletic administration. Today we're thrilled to welcome Dr. Sam Ferguson, the newly appointed Director of Athletics at the University of Texas Tyler. Dr. Ferguson brings over 25 years of experience in college athletics, including leadership roles at Albaline Christian, McMurray University, and Everett University. In this conversation, you'll hear how Sam's personal leadership values centered around character, community, and the courage to innovate are shaping the future of UT Tyler athletics. We also dive into topics like avoiding distractions as a leader, family life in athletic administration, navigating career transitions, and lessons learned over nearly two decades as an A. D. And of course, we couldn't pass up the opportunity to talk about the Patriots' dominant softball program and what makes it truly elite. This is a conversation full of wisdom, warmth, and practical takeaways for anyone looking to lead with purpose. Let's settle in and get to know Dr. Sam first.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Dr. Ferguson, we're so glad to have you joining Don and me for this episode of Hanging with the AD. It's always great to learn from our colleagues at the collegiate level, and you come highly recommended from our friend and previous guest, Alex Dimzik. So thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Oh, I'm excited to be here. And Alex is a uh great friend. And um you come recommended by him. That's that's a huge compliment and honored to be on this uh on this podcast. You've you've had some heavy hitters. I've listened to uh some of my uh mentors and people that I think a lot of in the industry, like Jamie Boggs, Kevin Gall, Jim Peoples, uh, and like my favorite author, John Gordon. So it's an honor to be here with you today. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yes, sir. Well, we've been blessed by people saying yes, just like you have, and uh, we look forward to this conversation. But uh, let's introduce you to our listeners. Dr. Sam Ferguson was announced as a director of athletics at the University of Texas, Tyler, in March of 2025. I think just now in our pre-call, our our time before this started, you said you've been there 82 days. So uh welcome to Tyler, I guess. Uh UT Tyler is a Division II college in Tyler, Texas. Prior to leading the Patriots there, Dr. Ferguson served as associate vice president and deputy athletics director at Abilene Christian University. And before that, he served in athletic departments at Averett University and McMurray University. Uh it is worth noting that while at McMurray, he was awarded the Most Outstanding Administrator and the Outstanding Servant Leadership Award there. Uh two awards that aren't really athletic based, I read, uh, but just talk about your leadership. So congratulations on those. And hey, we'll stop right there and we'll let Sam tell us a little bit more about his journey through athletics. Uh Sam, as you know, uh, we call it the back of the baseball card bio. So take a minute, tell us what the back of uh Sam Ferguson's baseball card might look like.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Well, I think uh the back of my baseball card would say he's a follower of Jesus, uh husband to Kim, uh the dad to Angelo and Caden, and uh one of the most fortunate humans alive. I've been blessed with opportunities I didn't deserve and people in my life that have propped me up. And um, you know, I just just uh I'm built on others. Uh started my career at Evert University. Again, I'll start with didn't deserve a spot on the basketball team. I I uh landed a spot on a Division III team at Averett University. I tell people I was more Bobby Boucher than I was uh Michael Jordan for sure. Uh but it it was uh experience that changed my life and went on to become the SID at Averett. Again, if they had done a search for that position, they would have found someone much more qualified than me. But Kirk Chandler, who was my basketball coach, uh saw something in me before others did and uh hired me for a role I was not ready for and ill-equipped for, but just figured it out. Worked my way up, became athletic director. Um guy named Charles Harris, a legend in the industry, uh former AD at Arizona State, uh, former commissioner of the Mideastern Athletic Conference, was the AD at Penn as well. Uh Charles became RAD, got promoted, and again, um didn't do a search, could have found someone much better than me, promoted me uh into the AD position and um went went from there to McMurray University, where I led uh McMurray. We we took McMurray for nine years, went to Abilene Christian uh in 23, June of 23, before landing at Tyler. But um again, I just think about those stops and and the people that that propped me up uh at Averett, Kirk Chandler, Charles Harris, Tiffany Franks were uh very important people in my life. Uh learned from uh a legend in Grant Taft, who is a uh McCurry alumnus when when I was there. Uh, and now I've gotten to UT Tyler, and our president, Dr. Julie Philly, is one of the most incredible leaders I've been around. And there's a donor named Herb Bowie that um is just an elite encourager. And uh so that's a long answer to your question, but I would say the back of my baseball card would say uh Sam has reached places that he could not have alone and uh has stood on the shoulders of giants and um drinking from wells that other people have dug.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

We've heard that quote before. Our friend Doug Kilgore was the first one to share that with us, and uh yeah, I think that's common through uh Don and my uh journey as well. But uh, you know, what hit me there is you said twice that they did no search. Uh I'm curious if McMurray did a search or if it was a very, very short search because I think the common denominator is you, and uh there was probably no search needed. They knew what they had and and the talent right sitting right in front of them. So you probably don't want to admit that, but uh we'll say it for you. Uh probably no search needed was the uh flyer uh with you sitting in those rooms, but really cool and neat to neat to hear you say. We talk about mentors a lot, and you said a booster is an elite encourager. So that's really that's really cool to hear that you got somebody like that in your life. So maybe that those will come back up in a minute. But uh hey, I want to jump right in. I'm gonna be a little selfish here. Uh I I want to ask about a book I'm reading, and it's really a word. I'm reading this book by Bob Goff, uh, who who wrote a book called Undistracted. He also wrote Love Works, which is more popular, I think. But uh this book, Undistracted, my word for the 2026 school year, I do that John Gordon thing, but I do it through the school year, not the calendar year. My word's gonna be undistracted. Uh, I struggle with becoming distracted on a macro and a micro level, right? Um, whether it's big picture thinking or sitting here just trying to knock out an email and get distracted by thoughts. So I'm curious of how you found yourself defeating the temptations of distractions as you've grown in your leadership journey. In that book, uh Bob Goff uh makes note that we'll make 35,000 decisions a day. So just just curious on uh how do you overcome distractions or the temptation of distractions and stay focused on on your mission?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Well, I uh I wish I could say I'm great at it, but I I am not I I need to read that book. In fact, I need I'll I'll go to Amazon as soon as we're done with this podcast and order that one because I am uh accused and and guilty of being distracted quite frequently. But um I I generally just I try to make it about people. And I find that if I am on my phone, if I am wasting time, if I'm wasting time at work, that's less time I get to uh get home and spend time with my family. If uh if if I'm wasting, I just want to be where my feet are. And um I think the best way for me to do that is to remember that I'm here to serve. And um, when I'm distracted, it's probably me trying to fulfill something that I want rather than um me trying to fulfill something that others need from me.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

That's great. Uh that idea of you know making it about people and and and blooming where you're playing it, I think, if are two great pillars uh to kind of build your leadership style on. Now, with more than 25 years of experience in athletic administration, uh what is a defining story or experience that taught you your most important leadership lesson, maybe helped shape you as a leader even today?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Wow, there are so many. Um I I don't know if there's one instance. I honestly I I think um probably one encounter with I mean encounters with people are are what has shaped my my leadership experience. Yeah, I think about Grant Taft. I mean there's a legendary coach and he's larger than life. But when you get in front of him, he is undistracted. He gives you his complete time and and energy, and he's always I think what makes him great. I've listened to podcasts where they've taken old um speeches that he's given to teams, and he just planted belief in others. Um and what I aspire to be is a belief planter. I I want to be what uh what Grant Taft was to the Baylor Bears in 1973 when they won a uh Southwest Conference title for the first time in 50 years, um, probably because they had more belief than anyone else, but not as much talent. And so uh just being around people who encourage others and uh make you believe in yourself before you before you believe they they believe more in you than you believe in yourself. Uh that that's that's kind of what has changed my life and uh what I aspire to repeat.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah, I think that idea of belief is is I think it carries more weight. I don't think people give that enough credit. I think that they just look at measurables, if that makes sense, depending on I mean if it's obviously if it's athletic, you're looking at height, weight, how fast you are, all that kind of stuff. But just in a leadership perspective, there, in my opinion, there are uh certain things that people look at, but they that doesn't measure someone's heart, doesn't matter, doesn't measure you know their belief in themselves and what they can do. So I totally agree uh that that can be a powerful tool. Uh it is it's helped me along the way too. Now, you're relatively new in your role there at UT Tyler that we mentioned. And having stepped in just in the last couple months, uh, for athletic directors or coaches who may be considering a transition like that. We're we're filming this during the summer months for us. Um, we've got a lot of ADs that are going to be making that same decision, right? Uh they're they're changing schools and they're going to different places. What is one factor that you looked at in this potential new opportunity that maybe somebody would overlook, right? That you kind of leaned into uh and maybe that ended up being a significant uh part of your of you making the decision to make that move. Maybe it's something you've learned uh to value through the years, or maybe it was something you learned this time. But what was something that kind of you looked at it and you were like, I think this is why this place is attractive, and it may be something that someone doesn't even think about.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Well, I'm sure it's something people think about, but um I'll just start with this. I I was at ACU and uh I loved the experience there. I loved it at City of Abilene, I love the people at Abilene Christian. Uh by the way, I forgot to mention when I was talking about mentors, probably one of the most important ones in my life is a guy named Gary McCaleb um at ACU. ACU was great for me. Uh, wasn't necessarily looking to leave, but um just felt compelled to look into getting back into the AD chair. Uh, but what made the difference for me is when I met Julie Philly, the the president. She took my wife and I uh and some other members of her cabinet to dinner, uh that she invited my wife on the interview, which I thought was incredible because she knew that, hey, she needs to like Tyler too. Uh but when I had dinner with Dr. Philly, I just knew, okay, I need to work for her. I I want to work for her, I can grow uh under her leadership, and uh she'll she'll make me a better person and a better leader. And I think if you're looking at making a transition, um, if you're listening to this, I I would think an important variable would be who are you aligning yourself with? Who who will you be becoming in this new experience? Um and and I see myself growing and learning and becoming better than um the Sam Ferguson of old, uh, working with people like Julie Philly and and the president's cabinet here.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

If you don't mind me asking, like what what was it that I was gonna ask the same exact thing, Don? Like, what what made you say I need to work for her?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

She permeates with humility, she is smart, she is visionary, she values people. And again, I'm not I'm not saying I'm great at it, but those are the same things that I want to be great at. Those are things I'm working to grow in. I already see it in her. Um, and and that's that's that was a huge deal. The coaches here are veterans. Yeah, I tell people all the time when I was at ACU, when I was at McMurray, I'm the only one in the room using cheaters, you know. But I get here to UT Tyler and there's a room full of cheaters, uh, you know, glasses. I'm talking about cheaters. Careful there, hey. A room full of uh readers, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Hey, there's no rules in NCAA anymore. You can't cheat, right? I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

So so uh I love the fact we've got veteran coaches, that was attractive. Uh the fact that I I know we can be successful here, that was attractive. But what really put it over the top is Julie Philly, um, just the way she treated me, the way she treated my wife. I just saw humility in her, uh an intelligence in her, a um she's just just proactive and a student focus. And I thought, you know what? I want to be, I want to be like her when I grow up.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

I I really think that what you said there though is you said that that probably isn't something that somebody would overlook, but I would push back and go, you looked at her as a leader and you said she has qualities that I want to be like that, right? I don't think enough people would do that. That they they wouldn't look at someone or take a job because the leader or whoever it was that they're gonna answer to, they see qualities in them that they want to improve in themselves. And by aligning with them, I feel like I can do that better. I think that that could be overlooked. I think that's great advice.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah, I love it. I love listening to you talk about the Ms. Philly or Dr. Philly. That's uh that's inspiring. All right, I want to jump over and talk about some building blocks you have for UT Tyler Athletics that we found. Uh I think there are three C's, right? Character, community, and courage to innovate. Um, first of all, can you talk about why these three building blocks are so important to you collectively?

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Well, I I think if uh I think each one builds on the other. And and the last one is excellence. So there's a three C's and then there's excellence. Um we want ultimate goal is to create good humans out of our student athletes. So uh I want our coaches to be full of character. I want them to preach that to their own student athletes. Uh if you're good people, you operate with integrity, uh, you treat people well, that builds community. Okay, so if we're we're in community, we we trust one another, we uh spend time with one another, we're undistracted, we we are where we feet are, we make it about others, we serve others, and then when you have that community, now you've got that trust, you've got um the courage, the safety, if you will. In community, we have the safety to be courageous and make innovative decisions, uh, take calculated risks because you know you will not be um if the community is strong enough, you you've got the the freedom to to fail and learn from that failure. And then you do all those three things. If you if you've got good people with you, if you've got a strong group that you can trust, you if you've got the courage to innovate, then all those things lead to to excellence. We want to do, um, we want to represent UT Tyler well. We want to uh raise the bar each year, get a little bit better. So though that's that's kind of what we've talked about uh to our staff. And finally, I threw this in there. I guessing you got this off of the press conference. Um I tell our coaches as well, we we want to have fun. I mean, this should be something we enjoy doing. Our student athletes can't love UT Tyler. Our students, our fans can't love UT Tyler until we love it first. Uh, and we need to make it a uh a fun experience and we need to have fun with one another. It's a stressful job. Coaches have stressful jobs, and um we we need to find ways to take advantage of moments to create some fun.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yeah, that's great. Um, I did hear the have fun, but I I love that part about other people can't enjoy it, can't love it until we love it first. That's yeah, if the people inside the bottle can't love it or aren't loving it, the people outside aren't either. But uh, you know, you know, I think something that struck me there, yeah, it was in the press conference. And um, I think we hear character, I think we hear courage, you know, more common, right? I think not not everybody uses those in their building blocks or their values or whatever, but those are fairly common and understandably understandably why. But when you said courage to innovate as your third one, I kind of stopped it, backed it up, and said, Did he say courage to innovate as number three? And yeah, that's he put that in his top three. That that must get to the core of who you are and how you want to lead and and just being um, like you said, just just giving freedom to to do new stuff to your to your coaches and your staff. So can you expand on why courage to innovate is in your top three building blocks?

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Well, Josh, I'm not sure if you've noticed, man, but um college athletics is changing.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Right? And so if we're stuck in our own ways, if if we are not looking at new ways to do things, uh then we're not gonna achieve the final goal of or the the final value of excellence. Uh so we've got to be looking at new ways to to uh to operate, new ways to recruit, um, new ways to get fans engaged, to uh create great experiences for our student athletes. So I just because the landscape is changing so rapidly, uh, we need to be adaptable and have the courage to do new things and and um change with it. But while also staying true, but we need to stay true to our mission.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, so saying that, my last follow-up there was why is it important for you to have these building blocks established in your persona as you pursue this new AD role at Tyler? Talk to leaders about having their foundational values for uh for leadership and how we should make these a part of our common language. I would imagine these three things were a part of your discussions as you're being interviewed there. Uh obviously they came out of a press conference, so it was conversation number one with the public. I imagine they're they're being you're saying them in front of student athletes and coaches. So why is it important for ADs to have these values that are part of our common individual language?

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Well, I want people to know what it looks like to work here, to compete here, to um be a fan here. I want them, I want to be transparent about what we're about. And I want our coaches uh and our our student athletes to to hear me say these things so so they can be an extension of of what we're trying to accomplish in in the city of Tyler. We we want to be Tyler's hometown team. And I think the best way to do that is through those values to be good people. This is a this is a town, a city with strong Christian values. Um the the city of Tyler, I if if we want them to show up for us back to community, then we need to go out. And show up for them. And then we need to compete at a high level. And I want our student athletes to know that, hey, and our coaches to know, hey, we we want you to try new things. And we want you to we we want you to know that uh average doesn't meet the the mark here. So um I think when you give language to and you're transparent about what you're about, then um two things happen. One, people who are aligned with that, they want to come be a part of those things. And then people who um may just be looking for a job if they don't fit. This may help them understand, hey, if this isn't important to you, uh this isn't important to me, then I may not be a good fit there. So we we we want everyone to know what our values are because we want to attract people who align with those. And uh if you don't, that's fine. Uh, but we just want you to know on the front end that, hey, this is what's important to us.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

I think as you're saying that, I wrote it down. I I want people to know what it looks like to be led by me, and you're gonna do it up front, right? It's not gonna be after the fact. You're gonna let them know what it's going to look like to be led by you, your staff, that department up front. Uh, and I think that works, that's a two-way street because number one, you're you're laying out your vision, but at the same time, it allows them to hold you accountable to what you said as well, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

And I tell our coaches a lot, hey, call me out. If if you see me, if you see me misaligned with any of these things, if I do it because I'm a human, you know, I make mistakes like everyone, um, call me out and do it, do it nicely, you know, but uh, but but let me know. Let me know if I'm missing the mark because it's it's unintentional.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah, I mean, you're 82 days in and you're talking about these three things on day one. You're probably still talking about them on day 82. And I would imagine on day 820, you're gonna be saying those same three things, and everything that y'all do there is gonna fall in one of those three buckets per se. So uh I love it. I think it's important to have, you know, some people call them buzzwords, but I think it's it is to the heart of who you are and uh what you're about. You gave it given you said you've given language to that. So that's really, really good. And uh you mentioned uh the town of Tyler and wanting Tyler, you know, to be an extension of the town and wanting to be there. Um, but getting to the university a little bit, as we mentioned, we watched that, or I watched that introduction press conference there, Tyler. I we noticed the effort that was put into the excellence of the presentation. And Don and I have read this book, Unreasonable Hospitality, which is a hot book right now, Will Ghidara talking about just hospitality. And man, it jumped off the screen. Number one, in the presentation and and what the University of Tyler did during your press press conference, and and number two, what you said about the process. And you've kind of already said some of those things, but you know, there was a crisp, brand new backdrop. It looked beautiful. Uh, there were some table decorations, there was a large video screen, and I think had a good graphic slide on it. The cheerleaders were there. Um, and the mascot was sending it. That was that was all really cool stuff, but I don't imagine, and we haven't known each other long, but I don't imagine, and maybe I'm wrong here, and if I am, I apologize. I don't imagine you prescribed all that. Uh that that was probably done by someone or a group of people outside of you and your orchestration. Uh then in the conversation or in the press conference, you referenced, and I'm kind of semi-quoting here, the first class nature of the search committee that, as you already said, included inviting your wife and I think your sons to the interview process. They wanted them involved. Uh, hospitality and as you said, thoughtfulness and uh made you feel welcome, made your family feel welcome there, uh, just through all the different thoughtfulness that uh uh things that they did. So it seems just from this be a brief moment at the University of Tyler that that place exudes excellence in the little things, which we believe transcends to the big things. What can leaders learn? I'm sorry for the long answer, the long question, but what can leaders learn through looking at these little pieces of evidence that were demonstrated through your hiring process?

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Well, I think the bottom line is Dr. Philly and the UT Tyler community wanted to feel or wanted my family and I to feel welcome. And that the mission accomplished there. Um it it speaks to people and and the importance of um I guess believing in people before they give you a reason to. I mean, I hadn't I hadn't done anything for UT Tyler yet. It was literally day three, um, but they made me feel like a part of the family immediately. And um and it's been throughout the entire city of Tyler. It's not it hasn't stopped with UT Tyler. The chamber board has reached out to me and and been unbelievable. I told you in the pre-call that there's a family that housed me for two months rent-free. Um cooked me dinner every night. And it's it's um you want to be a part of a community, and we do our best work when we are in community and we are encouraged and and people have uh a belief in you. Um, so I I I think I I didn't deserve it. I didn't deserve it all, but it's just who Julie Philly is, and it's it's who the athletic staff who put a lot of that together, it's who they are. Uh, and it's a big reason why I wanted to to be here. I mean, you don't win national championships um with with media with little things, like you said, little things matter. Um and UT Tyler has we've got several national championships, including three in um three in softball since 2016. Well, there's championships are a broad byproduct of doing things excellently like that. And so um that's good. That's that's um what what I've found is everything matters at UT Tyler.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Sam, let me ask you a question. What where does because this this is like jumping through the screen as we're talking to you? Where does your sense of humility and service come from? Is it I mean, is that a have you always been this way? Is that a collection of your experiences? I mean, literally, it is leaping through the screen. I'm just kind of curious what the source of that is.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Well, um, just the fact that you said that, I I I appreciate it. I tell you that I'm a work in progress. I I uh don't ever every day I'm trying harder to to reach the mark. Um man, it's it's it's people in my life, it's my faith. Um I just um people have been really good to me. People have been really, really good to me, and uh, and I wanna I I wanna pay it forward. I want to be really good to others. And um I don't always reach the mark. In fact, uh probably at home is where I'm worse. I'm I'm probably the worst when I'm at home. But um, you know, like I told you in my baseball card, the back of my baseball card explanation, a lot of people have been unbelievable to to Sam Ferguson, and um it's what I owe the it's I I owe the universe to to do my best to try to reciprocate that.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Well, I agree with Don, and and usually we do a little recap before the two-minute drill and then do one at the end. But I think people are gonna take away from this conversation, and we got a little bit more to go, but just um, hey, we can all be more humble and try to be like Sam Ferguson because well, it's uh it is very noticeable. Um, speaking of people and family and home, uh I wanted to ask a question we've asked um on here quite often, and it's about the myth of work-life balance, probably in any profession, but especially in this profession of athletic administration, right? The work-life balance scares people to death to talk about. You mentioned at your press conference there, once again, we're staying on that press conference, but that your 11-year-old would be an active presence around the athletic facilities there. Uh Don grew up with two kids uh running around a football field. I have a 10-year-old who runs around Pope High School. Uh, I don't like to say like he owns the place, but he's very comfortable there for sure. Uh, and he's comfortable around coaches and and hopefully they are comfortable uh, you know, taking care of him. But can you talk about the lifestyle and family assimilation that is required to make a career in athletic administration successful for the whole family? It really is a lifestyle, not a balance, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Oh, for sure. And the the way we achieve it is my wife and I and and our sons, I've got an 11-year-old, also have a 21-year-old. Um, the 21-year-old is is less interested in hanging out with dad, but the 11-year-old still thinks dad's pretty cool. Um we have to our our our family time has to happen. A lot of it, not all of it, has to happen at university events. And um, you know, I I want the student athletes to feel like a part of the family, and the best way to do that is to let them know, get to know mine. Um, I tell our coaches a lot, the most important thing we can do for our student athletes is teach them how to be great husbands, great wives, great fathers, great mothers, uh, because ultimately that's that that's the number one job in their life when they um move on from um their their you know, we've got a four a four-chapter stint that we have them and an average lifespan is 85 years-ish. Um if if we're not doing something that extends beyond those four chapters, then it's not worth it. And the best thing we could do is just teach them how to be good people. So I I love um I love to share my family with with our student athletes. There's a basketball player at ACU named Hunter Jack Madden from Australia, and that guy calls my son. He's 23 years old, and he and Caden are are like best friends. Um, we're already making those same types of relationships here at UT Tyler. And um, you know, uh the best way to achieve not the balance, but integration, I think, is sharing your family and then sharing your work family at home as well. That's that's when it's worked well for us, how it's worked well for us. Our date nights are basketball games, or maybe a university play or a concert here on um on the campus.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

All right, I'm gonna give you a chance to uh to brag, and you did once again press conference, right? Uh you you said a lot there that we'd like to talk about, but um you said integration and date nights are basketball games. Um take a minute to to brag on your uh incredible athletic administrator wife there. It takes a lot. I always call I said my wife is the best coach's wife, but then I became an AD. So now I just take the microphone and say she's the best AD's wife, but we'll give you the microphone and let you brag on your wife for a minute.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Oh, she's incredible. I tell her she's not my better half, she's my better three-quarters. She's much more, much more than half. And um, you know, she she does a lot. She we have teams over for meals in the past. We have we haven't been able to do that yet uh at UT Tyler's. We're still trying to get settled. Um, but she's super supportive. She I travel a lot, I um work late many times, and uh you know, she she gets it, she understands, uh, she embraces it. And it's um you you can't do it alone. It it takes a village, and and I tell people all the time that uh Kim Ferguson is the CEO of the of the Ferguson household. She's um she she's she's incredible and um she makes it easy to to be an athletic director at home.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

I tell you what, with a name like Hunter Jack Madden, that's now that sounds like a pirate or something. Like, of course he's from Australia, right? That's that's excellent. Now you began your journey uh as a collegiate athletic director in 2007, and so let's fast forward to 2025, where you are a lot smarter than you were then, okay, just like everybody. If the 2025 version of yourself could offer advice to the first-time AD who stepped in that role uh back in 2007, what would that guidance be?

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Hey Sam Ferguson, stop making it about you. Stop making it about you. I I remember I used to, I was not as collaborative as I needed to be in 2007 because I thought I needed to prove something. I needed to be the smartest guy in the room. Um I probably didn't treat people as well as I should have because I thought as as the boss, this this is what it takes to be. I always heard people, you know, you gotta be tough. You gotta be tough to be to be a um to be an athletic director. And I I I I think you have to be gritty to be an athletic director. You don't have to be tough on people. Tough on problems, easy on people. I should have been a little easier on on people. I I have written notes to folks that worked with me at Averett, apologizing to them for um for for for not handling it very well and just asking for forgiveness because there are lots of mistakes, lots of stump, uh I stumped my toe many times at Averett University and um still do it today, but hopefully less less frequently. But I would say to to that guy, stop making it about yourself. And um, you know, people are your biggest asset, treat them as such.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

I tell you what, if we if we only could, you know, I know that you have to go through everything, right? To end up where you are. And you have to you have to kind of go through all the setbacks and all that kind of stuff. But I tell you what, to have that clarity back in 2007, you mean you think what you you know, I could have done whatever I wanted to do, but at the same time, uh it is that that journey uh that teaches us those things. Now, a minute ago, you talked about uh your softball program, four straight World Series trips, back-to-back national titles. I know that you've only been there for a part of their latest run, but that kind of success clearly goes beyond talent. That's to me, that's a culture thing. What have you seen so far that makes that program so special?

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Well, an incredible coach to start. I mean, for it takes it takes a community that people want to be a part of in the city of Tyler and an academic program that um has a ton of value and a degree that that's going to bring value to the student athlete. But it takes an incredible coach. And I was blessed to introduce Coach Reed and one of our best players, JT Smith, to the uh chamber board last week. And I told them uh four things that uh stood out to me about this this team this year that I've got to observe since uh since April. One is that those ladies they loved each other, they had fun, they cared about each other, and um the starting catcher was best friends with the backup catcher. There was no animosity, no uh they were rooting for one another, even if it meant less playing time for for one of them. So they cared about each other, they expected to win. We uh we lost to West Texas AM in the first game of the super regional, and we needed to win two in a row, uh, or our season would have would have ended. So any after our our season could have ended next game, but they just expected to win. They just thought, oh, you know, well, we've we've won, we've beaten them before, we'll we'll do it again. They expected to they expected to do well, and we went on to outscore our opponents like 42 to 9 over the next seven games to capture the national championship. So um, even with their backs against the wall, there's no stress, they expected to win. Our coaches were super prepared. I was in Chattanooga with the coaching staff, and I'm trying to have dinner with Coach Reed. I'm trying to have breakfast with Coach Reed. And every time I text him, he's like, I'm watching film. Oh, um, hey, you want to go grab some ice cream? Cookout. Cookout's a big thing. It's not in there's not a cookout in in Texas, but there are several in in uh Tennessee. He's like, hey coach, let's go get a milkshake and cookout.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Milkshake, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yeah, he said, I'm I'm uh I'm I'm watching film. I can't do it. There was no one more prepared than Mike Reed and the UT Tyler Patriots. And then finally, uh it takes a village. You know, the people that came before us, uh Howard Patterson and and what he put in place here, uh the the city of Tyler, the support that we get from the system, all of those things together uh create a recipe for success. And um, so that that's what it took for us. That's that's what that program brings and others that that we have uh that makes it special and positions us for championship success.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Man, I tell you what, if I'm an AD listing, I'm gonna sniff that and share with every coach on my staff because it there's the recipe. Everybody wants a championship program, but there's the recipe figured out from uh those four components. That's uh that that was awesome stuff right there. All right, Sam. One last question, and and I know you've listened to some episodes. Maybe you've heard us ask this one this year. Uh we kind of move our move our questions around year to year. But uh this one we're asking each guest is to respond to a statement in a book called The Five Graces of Life and Leadership by Gary Burneston. I don't know if anybody's buying this book, it's a little coffee table book, but maybe we'll get some uh we'll get some um uh kickbacks or something. I don't know. But uh the statement is leadership. It starts with the leader, but it's not about the leader. How do you respond to that statement on leadership?

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Well, I again I think I mentioned what when I was talking to my former self, um service. It's it it starts with service, it starts with um belief in others and trusting in others. So yeah, I I think if if you are if you're pouring into other people, if you're challenging in challenging them, but also supporting them at that same challenge level, then then you can you can have success. Um I I've got this picture back here. This uh brilliant student at ACU, uh this art student who was an intern for us, she drew this for us. It's uh it's a water basin, a towel, and a pitcher. And it symbolizes to me the the need for me to wash feet. That that's that's what I'm here to do. Um is it's it's it's not I'm not here to be served, but I'm I'm here to to wash feet and give other people what they need to be successful. If I can help others become successful, a byproduct of that will be my my personal success.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

That's great. Yeah, I I that man, uh it's like I want you to sell that picture. I want you to uh make copies of and sell it because I'll be the first one to line up and buy and put in the office. That is something uh that's that is what it's all about. And uh thanks for reminding us of that. Uh there's a ton left here that I want to go back and look, I'm just scribbling notes down, but I I can't wait to listen to it. So, Sam, thanks for making us Better Leaders today and sharing your experiences. And uh we're gonna get to know you a little bit better with this two-minute drill. So I think this will be a little bit of fun here.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

All right. All right, Sam, we're gonna hit you with some rapid fire questions. You just tell us the first thing that comes to your mind, okay? I'm excited. I've been looking forward to this. All right, here we go. Uh, what was the first job you ever had ever in your life?

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Well, I I was um I was mowing grass on a golf course, doing a lot of odd jobs. So I'd like to call myself an assist assistant superintendent. I think my boss may have said that title was inflated, but um that that was my first job. And if I have time to share this, I used to, I was also, I would change the pins so you move the holes, and so I would put them in tricky spots. Yeah, you're that good. You're that good. I go with and uh had a few choice words thrown in my way a time or two by some of the members, but yeah, I was that good. That was my first job.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

When I when I tee off here at 5 30 today, I'm gonna be thinking Stan Ferguson on number number 10 or Loving them. That guy put that pen in impossible place. Goodness. So I'm just gonna call him Sam Ferguson from now on. I won't I don't I don't say bad words, but I'll just uh use your name to campaign. But that's cool. You got the you're the pin placement guy. Awesome. All right. Um looking at your resume, your education a little bit, biggest difference between East Texas and East Tennessee.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

East Texas and East Tennessee. Um, well, the mountains of East Tennessee. Great people in both spots, um, beautiful landscapes in both spots, wonderful education in both spots. Um but there's a few more hills in East Tennessee.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

No hills in East Texas. That's it. All right, that's good. A few hills, but not a few. Uh all right. What's a book that's really impacted you?

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Oh, my favorite book. There's there's so many. I mean, anything by Max Lucato is big on my um on my list. Uh okay. I haven't read that one yet. Um I would say Just Like Jesus by Max Lucato is a big one. And then another book called Better Humans, Better Performance by um a guy named Alan Culp is um that that's been huge and transforming the way I see the world and the way I lead.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Good deal. Whose poster was on your wall growing up?

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Ooh, whose poster was on my wall when I was growing up? Um well, probably um Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden, to be totally honest. Another layer of the onion. I didn't see that one coming. I loved uh I love don't judge me, guys. Don't judge me, but I'm a huge sports fan, but I was also a huge music fan and uh and and loved the band Iron Maiden. So that would be that would be one. Michael Jordan, of course, was a was a big one as well. Um, and Dale Murphy. But I was probably more interested in in Bruce Dickinson and than than those other two.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

That's awesome. That's good. Yeah, everybody that listens knows I I got two out of three of those. Jordan and Dale Murphy was my favorite player, but uh I'm out on the other home, Bruce Dickinson. There you go. So um, all right, what's your favorite high school subject?

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Oh, my favorite high school subject probably was um it was English. And not because I'm a great writer, it was because Nancy Talley taught the class. And she's another person. When I was growing up in in uh Chase City, Virginia, Nancy Talley was someone that changed my life through uh her encouragement and her belief in me. It was a little impoverished kid that uh grew up in in uh very modest means, and she she just uh encouraged me and and helped me see things in myself that I never saw before. So can't I don't know where to put the comma, so it's not like hey, Sam's an elite English guy, but Nancy Talley was um she she made English my favorite class in high school.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

That's good. All right, let's get let's play a game of hot or not. So these are hot takes or not hot takes. So we'll say it. If you agree with it, you say hot. If you disagree, you say not. Okay. Cereal as a late-night snack.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Ooh, yeah, hot. I'll go with hot.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

All right. Spicy food challenges. No, not every kid should have to play a team sport at least once.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Hot.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

All right. Is TikTok killing attention spans or redefining creativity?

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Okay, is this hot or not, or am I answering that's that well I guess is is it killing attention spans? How about that? Here you go. Hot. I would agree with that. It's also redefining creativity.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Including my own. Including my own, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Yeah, I totally agree. All right. Uh this this season we've been using uh Brett Ledbetter's 365 questions on here. Okay, a great book uh in asking questions and getting to know people. So pick a number between one and 365.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Um, I adopted my sons in 2017. We'll go 17. All right.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

When was the last time you felt an overwhelming sense of shock wash over you? And what is the best lesson that you learn from that feeling?

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Um the last time I felt an I felt an overwhelming sense of shock and what I learned from that feeling. Um I I would say the last time I felt an overwhelming sense of shock. That's a tough one, guys. I I should have picked uh I should have picked 20.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Let me tell you, it wouldn't matter it wouldn't matter what number you picked, they're all like that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Last time I felt a sense of shock. I would say um, the death of a loved one, and what I learned from that feeling is every moment is precious, and um you you you you just want to walk away from conversations and meetings with others positively because it could be the last time you do so.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Great, great answer. Yeah, good job. If you could see anyone perform live in any time or any time period, regardless of category, sports, music, acting, whenever, anyone, any time perform, who would it be?

SPEAKER_00 50:06

John Lennon. I love John Lennon. I would uh have loved to see him, maybe not, maybe with the Beatles, probably more so uh that Double Fantasy album and that tour. I I just I was a little tiny kid. Somehow I fell in love with John Lennon's music when I was five, six, seven years old.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Bill, what's your favorite meal of the day? Breakfast, lunch, or dinner?

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Oh, dinner. Dinner, you know, you spend 10 years, 11 years in West Texas. Um you you you want a steak, man, a Perini Ranch steak from Perini Ranch Steakhouse in Buffalo Gap, Texas. That that would be my favorite dinner. And now I'm finding new ones here in Tyler, like uh Prime 102, a steak at Prime 102 at Perini Ranch. That's that's my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Yeah, we got two places to go in each Texas, Don. I'm ready to go. I can eat a steak with the best of them right there with you. Okay, let's finish with this. It's our trademark question today, Dr. Sam Ferguson. You've been hanging with the ADs, but let's say you can hang out with anyone. Who would that be and why?

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Okay. I I knew this question was coming. Um, I've heard a lot of people answer that one. Jesus is the easiest answer there for obvious reasons. We've already talked about him. Uh, but so I'm gonna go somewhere else with it. I would say Max Lucato. Okay. I I I heard him speak at Abilene Christian, met him for 90 seconds, uh, but just that's a guy who's the his humility permeates throughout his books. He tells on himself a lot, and um I don't know. I I just feel like when I think about people who model Christian values, um he he's among the top of the list if his uh books are true to form personally. So I would say Max Cicado.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Sam, thank you so much for the time today. Your awareness that one only gets where they are without the help of others, you know, or by the help of others, I think is unmatched. Uh, and I really hope that our listeners lean into that uh and appreciate that as much as we do. So thanks again for the time.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Well, thank you, and thank you for what you're doing. I I've since receiving the email from you all, I've been excited, but um also have found a new resource to help me develop. I I wanna I want to grow every day, and uh hanging with the AD and these podcasts archives and the ones to come are gonna help me do that. So thanks for what you do to keep people sharp.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Well, once again, we made a new connection with an incredible leader, Dr. Sam Ferguson, director of athletics, newly at the University of Texas, Tyler, when we recorded this in July of 2025. And uh what a humble leader. Don stopped it in the middle and just asked him where does his source of humility come from comes from because it was so obvious to us, and obviously it was to you as well, no doubt. Um, and he just kept talking about people in his life. He started off by talking about people in his life who propped him up. Uh, and uh hopefully, as you listen to that, you were able to reflect on the people in your life who propped you up. I know I thought of several names of just special people in my life. Um, and I sure am thankful for the reminder that Dr. Ferguson, uh, as he said, Sam, uh, reminded us of uh of that, that people in our lives help us to get to where we are. You know, he talked about he aspires to be a belief planner. What better philosophy for an educator, for a leader in education-based athletics than to be a belief planner in others, whether it's staff or student athletes? I thought for the coaches here, for the especially college and high school uh leaders, he talked about we have students or young people for a four-chapter stint to get to know them. Uh, those four chapters are very quick and short, so we need to take advantage of those. Uh then you know that team uh components uh of what made a great team and their World Series championship team. I thought those four components were the exact recipe that coaches could use to uh mimic and uh hopefully develop a championship culture. But the the one quote I wanted to leave us with uh and before I do that, Dr. Ferguson, Sam, thank you for joining us today. Thanks for saying yes. Alex Demzik, thanks for the recommendation. Man, we got to give you all the props because you connected us to Sam, and we look forward to watching him lead a great successful program there at uh UT Tyler. But that quote where he said when we talked about excellency or doing things with excellence, uh which is a buzzword of mine right now, he said something to the effect of championships are byproducts of doing things with excellency. I thought that was strong, but uh there were a lot of other nuggets here that were just incredibly and impactful uh to our leadership. So hopefully you got good notes. We thank you as we always do. Uh, we hope that you'll take time to leave us a rating or review that helps us get this podcast to others. Uh, it's not about Don or I, it's about the Sam Fergusons who we get to talk to who can help other leaders be great. So hit uh hit a star rating there, please help us out. And as always, thank you for spending your time hanging with the eighties, and I think that's a good idea.