SPEAKER_00 0:04

You're listening to the Hanging with Yadie podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and lessons learned through leadership.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Now, here are your hosts, Josh Matthews and Don Baker. Today it's off to the great state of Texas as we sit down with Kevin Gall, who serves as the Senior Associate AD and Chief Strategy Officer for the Baylor Bears of Baylor University in Waco, Texas. Kevin talks about his unique route to athletic leadership and the lessons that he's learned along the way. Let's settle in and get to know Mr. Kevin Gall.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Kevin, we're so glad to have you joining Don and me for this episode of Hanging with the AD. We are sure that someone with your title, and we'll talk about that in just a minute, has a very busy plate and a full plate today. So thanks for taking time to join us.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Absolutely. Great to be with you guys and uh excited for the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

All right, for our listeners, Kevin Gall serves as a senior associate AD and Chief Strategy Officer at Baylor University, a Baylor alum. Kevin's lead strategic positioning, developing operational best practices, standardizing hiring processes, and establishing professional development programs, and also serves as an in-house consultant for culture development and various long-term projects initiated by the director of intercollegiate athletics there at Baylor. So today's gonna be a great conversation. Kevin comes highly recommended by one of our former guests, uh Jamie Boggs of Grand Canyon University. Uh so we're looking forward to this conversation. And before we get into that, we'll let Kevin tell us a little bit about himself. Kevin, we call it the back of the baseball card bio. So if you could take a minute, tell us what the back of Kevin Gall's baseball card would look like.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Uh it would say did not play coaches decision.

unknown 2:01

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Um, in in all seriousness, uh so I uh I grew up all over. Actually, uh I know you guys are in uh Metro Atlanta. My first, my first memories are in Atlanta uh growing up. My dad taking me to Fulton County Stadium with 2,500 people to watch Dale Murphy play.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

2,500. That was a crowded night. That was a busy night. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Well, well, yeah, but but he would also take me to uh to Georgia Tech with about uh four times the crowd to watch uh Kenny Anderson and Bobby Kremen's teams and and and uh and all that. And uh so uh so yeah, so uh grew up all over when I was in seventh grade. My family moved to Houston. I've been in Texas ever since. Um went to undergrad at Baylor. Um, well, let me let me back up one. Had a transformational experience um playing high school basketball, played for a uh a great coach, um, was an amazing culture, was part of a very successful team. Uh that's the did not play coach's decision joke. I I never started. Um that's why we were really good. Um but uh you know that experience kind of helped me by, you know, helped me understand the transformational power of sports and of coming together as a team and of achieving something bigger than any one of us could achieve, of loving the person next to you. And so um took that to college, was a manager in undergrad when Scott Drew first took over the Baylor basketball program after the scandal and the death of the player and the instable A violations. And during that was was was very, very fortunate to be part of that, the first part of that historic turnaround, which obviously culminated um a few years ago with the 2021 national championship. But my first year as a manager, we were one and 15 in the Big 12, and the one was a gift. Uh we uh we started uh the game hot uh on a 21-2 run against Colorado and we held on for dear life and won by six. And uh, and then my senior year, we made the Nstable A tournament. And so to be part of watching the work that went into that, the intentionality, the ability to go through hard times and stay positive. Um, that was, again, uh another transformational experience for me. Went to law school because I had a political science degree and I didn't want to teach or go work on the hill. So that's what you do when you get a political science degree. Um learned enough in law school to learn. I didn't really want to practice law because I didn't love it. Uh went to work for a boutique uh executive search and consulting firm um called Eastman and Bodine, which is in Plano, which is right outside of Dallas. Uh um, and uh so I did a lot of work in the college sports industry doing executive searches for head coaches and athletic directors, did a lot of consulting projects, uh, did that for almost a decade. And then um in 2021, um there was some movement on the executive team here. And uh our athletic director, Mac Rhodes, uh, very fortunate he he gave me an opportunity to come back and do it. Um, do uh uh this this job of chief strategy officer, which is um on some days um that uh that that means uh one thing, on some days it means another thing. But it's been a really, really eventful two and a half years in the college sports industry. Uh and so um I I've probably learned and grown more than I've actually contributed. Um, but maybe if I do it long enough, that ratio will flip. And then um, but uh but I've been doing that since since 2021. So I uh I like to tell people I've never really actually had a real job. Um always gotten to do something I love uh with people I love. And uh and then I've got an amazing wife, Hillary. Uh, we've been married uh 15 years, and then I've got three kids. Henry is 10, Georgia is nine, and Gus is six. Um and so I don't have a ton of hobbies. There, uh like I'd I'd I work and I hang out with my family.

unknown 5:59

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Hey, real quick, uh I heard Scott Drew on a podcast Coach Me Up. Um, great podcast. He talked about his new book, and I actually ordered his book. It's sitting on my uh I I got it for Christmas, actually. Sitting on my uh desk and I'm ready to read it. Uh and we typically don't ask our guests to talk about other people. That's uh not necessarily fair, but um, since you mentioned working with Scott Drew, give us a little quick snippet, uh a picture of what it's like to work with Scott Drew. His his book, something I can't remember the exact title, but it's about joy. He talked about joy of coaching and learning that. And I imagine you might have uh experienced that working with him. Give us a little picture of Scott Drew.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Yeah, so joy is an acronym for Jesus Others Yourself and in that order. And if you keep that as the priority, then that's kind of his secret sauce. And so Scott Drew is the most relentlessly energetic, positive person I've ever met on planet Earth. And so much so that you you actually you believe that it's Jesus others yourself because there's no earthly source of that joy. Uh, there's no energy drink, there's not enough coffee in the world. It's got to come from something supernatural. Um, so Coach Drew is uh an amazing person, uh, an amazing human being, very low ego. Um, but uh probably the the biggest uh the best thing I could say to with with Coach Drew is he people who meet Coach Drew, they kind of go through uh a little bit of a uh uh a progression. They meet him and they're like, oh, that guy's awesome. And then they're around him a little longer and they're like, he can't actually be like that all the time. And then like you're around him even longer and you're like, no, he's he's actually like this. He is he is he is he is this level. And um, and so like I think that for for uh for the time for the job that needed to be done at Baylor, for who we are as an institution, he's the absolute perfect fit. Um, Scott, uh not a self-promoter, so he but his probably his two probably most underrated qualities, uh well, I'll give you three. He's incredibly intelligent, he's an incredibly hard worker, and his secret, his superpower is he asks really, really, really good questions.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

That's that's good. I the the ability to do that, I read recently that idea of whoever asks the best questions is going to get the best information and therefore going to be the best in the room. Uh it's a uh you know the best way to do that. Now, Kevin, as someone who works on long-term projects, you understand that it takes vision, planning, patience, uh, grit uh to see them from creation to completion. We've got a lot of people that listen to this podcast. A lot of times ADs are tasked with large building projects on their campuses, whether it be athletic in nature or not. Uh, but because of kind of the the the requirements of the job, they kind of get stuck uh with with doing that. What are some keys when looking at large long-term projects? How have you found it best to get from idea to ribbon cutting?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah. It's a great question. I and um, you know, I I've been fortunate in when I came in here, we're doing two generational capital projects right now. Um, Foster Pavilion, which just opened for Big 12 basketball play, brand new state of the art arena, which um the build-out's still not finished with the practice facility and all that. But um that, and then we're uh the Fudge Football Operations Center, which will house all of our football operations, um, that'll be a transformational uh uh facility for us as well. The wheels to those were in motion um before I got here. And so um, you know, it would be disingenuous for me to sit and say, like, well, the way we did foster pavilion was because those that that was done by people that the groundwork was laid long before I came here. Sure. But what I have been able to do is is really learn uh what I think are we do really, really well in executing long-term projects. I think the first thing is the the vision has to be really clear and really simple. Um complexity and nuance doesn't travel very well um in conversation. And our capacity for it as a community, whether that's our student athletes, our staff, our donors, our campus, um it needs to be simple. It needs to be clear. And then the communication needs to be most people's normal communication level is undercommunicating. Um overcommunicating, or what you would perceive to be overcommunicating, is actually the right amount of communication. Because with any long-term project, you're gonna have good days and bad days, you're gonna have ebbs and flows, you're gonna have days when um it looks really, really far off and really expensive. And there are gonna be days where you're high-fiving each other. And if you can be, and and and there's also an element to it um that's unknown. And and and the unknown element really comes in sometimes with strategic planning and doing things that are a little bit less metric-based, obviously with a facility. You know, you could see it going up and see it being constructed. But, you know, your greatest tool in when you're facing unknown, the unknown, and when you're doing something over a long period of time is tending to the relationships with those around you that you that you're going through it with. And so, you know, I I think I think clear, simple vision, over communication, and tending to the relationships. I I think I think we've done that really, really well. And I think for anybody, um, whether it's at the high school level, the college level, uh in, you know, in the corporate world, the nonprofit world, those things translate.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

It's really good. I've got an idea I want to do here at Pope, and and you actually just helped me kind of tie it together and some some philosophy there. So I appreciate that. Kevin, as a leader, I think it's really important to maintain connections with role models and mentors. Uh, regardless of a leader's success, there are individuals that we go to when we need advice. I like to call those folks my board of directors. Actually, on the whiteboard behind me, I've got a list of eight or ten names that uh I would consider my board of directors that I want to just, you know, think about often and also make sure I maintain contact with there. Who do you look for for inspiration or mentorship and what drew you to those those people?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah, great, great question. Um, it's funny you bring up the concept board of directors. My my my boss at Eastman and Bodine, Bob Bodine, who's a great friend and mentor, he wrote a book called The Power of Who and actually wrote a concept in that book that said everybody should have a personal board of directors. Um, and and because in times of trouble or crisis, we tend to isolate, we tend to not want to talk to people. And um, and so it kind of forces you to do that. So I I applaud you for that concept. Not a lot of people do that. Um but I I think for me, I think it kind of depends on on stage of life. But I mean, what what what I've always valued is seeking a really diverse group of of uh of people for for feedback and for guidance. And I mean that word diverse in every sense of the word. Um you know, age, gender, experience level. Um, some of the best advice I've gotten about athletics are from people not in the athletics industry. Um, some people, some of the best advice I've gotten about life for some people that screwed up theirs pretty badly. So uh there's no there's no corner on on the perfect mentor. I'm a big believer that God puts people in your life for a reason. And so you in terms of a mentor, you don't usually need to go seek it from somebody you've never met uh or go chase down somebody because they're famous or they have a position. Uh the people in your the people in your life, your life are there for a reason. And so, you know, for me, that started with my parents. Um, and I have unbelievable parents. They gave me every opportunity to be successful and um surrounded me with love and with uh consistency. And um, and and so um, you know, to this day, uh my parents uh are are great mentors to me. Um my wife is an unbelievable mentor. She she and I are uh have different strengths, different personalities. We see the world a little bit differently. And um, and so um, but she's um one of the most intuitive people I've ever met. And uh so I again I think it's important for it to start close to home. Professionally, uh, we already talked about Coach Drew. I already mentioned my high school basketball coach. I take up the rest of the time talking about those people. I already mentioned Bob Bodine. Um, you know, and then I think I think uh currently, um, you know, um uh our current boss, Mac Rhodes, my current boss, Mac Rhodes, our athletic director, is a great mentor. Um, I consider our VP of human resources on our campus, Cheryl Gotchas, is a great mentor who's an incredible leader, uh, just understands people. And then, you know, I've been fortunate that um I've been able to develop friendships with people, you know, generally in my life stage in this industry. And um, and and it's a diverse group of people, whether it's a Jamie Boggs or whether it's uh a Ren Baker at uh West Virginia or whether it's a Tommy McClellan at Rice. Um, you know, these are people who I talk to frequently, um, seek advice from. Troy, Troy Dannon at Washington would be another one. Um, and so uh so yeah, so I I think I think for me, it's going deeper with the people that are already in your life. It's not necessarily about going and seeking expert opinion because somebody has a platform or a title or um or a level of of uh of of notoriety. Um, you know, there are instances where that's appropriate, but I think if you're looking for a mentor, that's a highly, highly uh uh there's a lot of relational depth to that. And so um, you know, again, people you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I think that's great. I think it's really good advice. That they they know you, right? That's right. That's exactly right. And and I think that is, you know, you mentioned that relationship piece. I think knowing you, knowing how you learn, knowing the things that motivate you, I think that helps them drive you and mentor you. I think that that's that's a that's an excellent point. Now, one of the areas of responsibility under your title is professional development. And I think this is a problem area for many leaders as they look to find profound, appropriate professional development that is engaging, but at the same time doesn't overwhelm their staff and really gives them the tools that they can use to become better overall themselves and to make sure that their programs improve. What does good professional development look like and how do you measure it afterwards to see if it sticks with those that are receiving it?

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah. It's a great question. Uh I think going back to how you set up the question, I think that a lot of times the mistake people make is use the word they're looking for profound in professional development. I think that's a flaw off the bat. I don't think it needs to be profound. I think that um, you know, again, there's there's universal truths in life. They span industries and they span generations. And um, you know, whether it be the importance of relationships, the importance of being honest, the importance of, you know, of being a great listener, you know, whatever it is, right? But I I think, you know, what we try to do here is we try to set up uh scenarios in which we're learning from each other on a subject. And so yeah, we'll we'll we'll read a book. Um, the most recent, we the one we're going through this year is Canoeing the Mountains, um, with uh by Todd Bolsinger.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Um that's great stuff, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yep, yep. And it's all about adaptive leadership. Um we're fortunate uh to uh Todd's helping the university with with our strategic plan. And so we've had Todd come in and visit with Athletics a couple of times, and he's just a tremendous human being and been a great resource for us. But the reality is a lot of times people are looking for the tell me what to do. I'm not interested in telling you what to do, I'm interested in giving you a framework that you can maximize your gifts and talents gifts and talents that are unique from mine and all of your coworkers and everyone else in this organization. And so, like, and that's why I like the Bolsinger stuff is it's an adaptive leadership framework. It's not uh, you know, eight eight steps to your best life now or whatever, right? And so, um, and so what we try to do is we try to take, we try to get uh really, really uh substantive uh sessions by great discussion questions, uh being really intentional about the content. And we want to learn from each other. I facilitate them, but I but I call myself a facilitator because it's not me teaching them. It's and and it wouldn't be uh it wouldn't be very good for our organization if it was. So I think I think one is we don't need to try to be profound. We we can learn from each other as much as we can learn from any outside expert. And then I think the other thing is, you know, how do I see it uh catching on, how do I see it taking shape? I think sometimes it's when you start to hear some of the common language, when people start to use some of the same language, you see it seeping through a little bit. When when people feel free to um uh go ask somebody that they heard speak about something in a session, a question, when they don't feel uh like it's a sign of weakness to ask for help um or to include it in somebody or just do a quick hit and say, Hey, I I'm not sure. Can I get another set of eyes on this? That's when I really think it it takes shape. And so um, so again, I you know, I I I don't think we're setting the world, I don't I don't think we're leading the world in how we do it here, but I think we I think we are intentional about it. I think we do a good job, and we've seen some of that stuff over over time.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

That's really good. I mean, it's it's more practical than profound, right? That may have been a a better way to articulate it. And I think that again, you we touched on it with mentors, you touch on it here. This idea of there are a lot of smart people in the room, right? Like we don't necessarily have to go find it. There's there's a lot here. And I tell ours all the time, like there, there's really not a problem that we can't fix or that we can't work through if we kind of lean on one another. Now, let's talk personnel for a minute. New hires can be a mystery to most, is there really doesn't seem to be a foolproof formula to getting it right every single time. I think if any of us knew how to do this on this call, we wouldn't be on this call. We'd be picking out a vacation home in Hawaii. Uh, but something that I think doesn't get enough attention is how to effectively promote from within. Uh, with a new hire, more than likely you don't know that person. Uh, that we know, whenever you sit down to interview them, you've never seen them work, you've never seen them fail, you've never seen them tackle a problem in real time or even succeed. So you really don't know how they're going to respond to those situations. But with a current team member, you've got a body of work to pull from. What do you consider before promoting someone from within? And how does that process differ from a new hire? And is is it any easier to navigate?

SPEAKER_00 21:03

So what's crazy is uh it's like it's like you you you were in our meeting this morning because we're we've um we've developed this um onboarding and hiring and onboarding playbook that we're actually going to go through with all of our hiring managers tomorrow morning. And one of the parts of it is is you know getting a great candidate pool, but also um taking special care and attention to internal candidates. I so before I kind of dive into internal candidates specifically, I think from a 30,000-foot standpoint, I think continuity is so important. You know, if you if you if you look at um you know Bobby Bowden had that run in the 90s where it was how however many straight years finished in the top five. And you look and he had the same staff for that entire time, or as he would say the same dadgum staff, right? And and I and and I it really wasn't until Mark Rick left to coach the Bulldogs that uh that he had any significant, you know, turnover. Now, um you know stagnation can hurt you too so don't don't hear me say that you know you don't you don't want positive turnover you do but so but most industries right now are experiencing a high level of turnover college athletics is at the forefront of that and so if we're gonna have if we're gonna value continuity if we're gonna value our culture and our people we have to be able to hire internally and so I think the the first the first part of it is I think you have to invest in the people you want to hire internally before you know before the jobs open right um I I one of my favorite lines from Zig Ziglar was uh a CEO once once asked him you know why am I gonna spend all this money training our people to make them really good just to have them leave and Zig turned and said yeah okay but what if you don't and they stay yeah yeah and and the and the reality is is that um so again to me the internal hire process isn't about when the jobs open it's about what are you doing with that person to prepare them for advancement uh from from the time that you decide they have that in them and then what are you as the individual doing yourself um you know like uh in our men's basketball program you know Jerome Tang left two years ago to be the head coach at Kansas State the reason he's been able to be successful is he didn't start thinking about being the head coach when he interviewed at Kansas State. If if you if you'd have come in five years before and spent any time in practice you'd have thought you'd watch Coach Tang and said that's a head coach right there. He acted like he had the job before he had the job. Now he was still loyal to Coach Drew and he was a great assistant and all of it but um he didn't he didn't box himself in of I can only be this because of my title. And so I I think I think you know having a culture of of empowerment like that that that's that's really really important. Then candidly the decisions can kind of take care of themselves. But I but I also think the the other thing to remember is that a lot of times an internal candidate's uh internalness can be very much used against them because one you don't interview them as strongly because you think you already know them because I work with them every day. And number two they know all of our problems. And so somebody from the outside they're gonna seem much more excited and they're gonna have all these ideas because you know what they haven't been here and they don't know why none of that's gonna work. And so and and and so and so as the hiring manager you have you have to be smart enough to be able to delineate those things. And so again it's a balance you always want to have fresh eyes and and new blood come in but you you absolutely have to have a if you don't have a culture where you're having somewhat regular internal promotions you know that would be a red flag.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah that's a great comment right there. I think you tied a bow put a bow on it really good and um if you don't have any internal promotions that that's a red flag. That's I I was gonna say that's dangerous, right? That's that's scary. So yeah that's a that's a great way to sum up that um that's good. Let's let's stay on that topic of uh personnel for for one more question if you don't mind you know I think change is happening is moving faster now than ever but it's never gonna slow down either. So it's just gonna keep getting faster and faster. You in that college world you've already alluded to it I mean y'all change NIL or transfer portal or whatever it's gonna change while we're on this call, right? So it's crazy how fast things are changing in the world we live in. As a result of that key a key characteristic of our people or any new hire is agility is this something you look for while you're trying to hire someone while you're trying to make that hire and how do you assess it through the interview process how do you find agility by looking at a piece of paper or having a conversation an outstanding question.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

We use the word adaptability again we're doing the Bolsinger stuff common language right but agility adaptability means the same thing um right so so you're you're absolutely correct to identify that as really important. I think adaptability if you can pair adaptability with humility and intelligence then now you've really got something right and then you pair it with work ethic or in the case of somebody on a coaching staff um competitiveness now we're really articulating the profiles of of of who who we who we seek to bring in I think I think the way you look for adaptability is a couple fold. One is I think you want to see a variety of experience in their background you know I I think that um and and and not to not not to pick on anybody but I think that one of the reasons that uh coach Kay's assistant coaches or John Caliperi's assistant coaches or even sometimes Nick Saban's assistant coaches haven't gone on to have you know Bill Bill Belichick's assistant coaches haven't gone on to have just gangbuster success is because they're not used to the adversity um and they're not used to leading through the adversity. A lot of times like and I'll use a coaching example a lot of times a coaching a head coaching job is open because things aren't going well. And so there's going to be a rebuild there's going to be a trial and error process there's gonna be some losing and you know if you're used to go if you're used to being 30 and three every year well the first time you lose three straight conference games you're gonna want to hide you know hide under your desk and change your name and and that's not going to lend itself to to success. So I think I think a variety like I want to see you be somewhere where they don't have a lot of resources. But I I want to see that you've been through uh been in a losing climate and a winning climate you know and so you know maybe you know another another great one is is sometimes they've been through uh if it's an athletic administration they've been through an athletic director change so they've had to adapt to having a new boss um I think that's a a a a pretty underrated skill so I I think you can see it in the experience number one and then I think number two you just it's it's back to the asking really good questions, right? And so you know and so you know hey what are the you know what are the two biggest things that have changed in the way you do your job in the last five years and why like another great question I like to ask so if it's like a fundraising person or if it's a even if it's a head soccer coach hey when you like dive into your field whether it's fundraising or coaching soccer and you get like really nerdy and you know you're at a conference or you're sitting around a table having dinner with colleagues like what's the biggest topic you guys disagree on where there's like more than one way to see it? Because what that's gonna tell me is that they that they're they're they're exposed to different viewpoints that they they realize um there's there's good faith disagreements on how to do things. And so like yeah what like what's the biggest topic of disagreement currently in your industry uh or in your your sector I think that's a great question because if they can't name it I I would worry about the rigidity of how they're going to come in here.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Yeah that's good really good gave us some practical stuff and some uh high level thoughts there uh the man that's uh I love I love modifying the interview process so that's that's uh good stuff to take home with us right there. Kevin one more question as we uh put a bow on the conversation then we'll get into the two-minute drill which is kind of the fun way we end things yeah I I I heard about that that's why I've been pounding the coffee I got to get myself amped up for the two yeah there you go that's good yeah you got a Scott report uh so we got some good questions for you but there's one question we're we're finishing our conversations with this year. Your friend Jamie Boggs did not get to do this so I'll let you pass it on to her and make her put her on the uh on the hot spot later on but um we're finishing our our conversation with really a statement that we are letting you fill in the blanks there's two fill in the blanks we're letting you complete it uh and just give us what you what what comes to mind you take it anywhere you want it's kind of a double fill in the blank so here goes I read it twice and you can uh think about it for a second the best way to become better at blank is to become better at blank so the best way to become better at blank is to become better at blank how would you answer that got it the best way to become better at anything is by looking at yourself first and what I mean by that is not in a self you know not in a self aggrandizing selfish way but the best leaders I've been around they're always introspective first they look in the mirror first instead of pointing the finger outward at somebody else they're gonna point it back at themselves first and it's not even necessarily so much that um that they're gonna find uh the silver bullet within themselves but what that's gonna do is it's other people are gonna see that you that you're the kind of person that does that first and you know and and that's gonna create an environment where people are gonna feel free to give you ideas and make mistakes and there's gonna be more open feedback and more candid conversations.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

I'm like this with this with my kids like you know your kids are gonna screw up right like there's there's a thousand percent chance of that happening but um you know a lot of times I'll I'll start and I'll say what could I have done like is there something some scenario that I didn't prepare you for right like if if we if if we went to this event and you had acted like a fool did I prepare you for what this room was going to be like you know and and and if I didn't I'm gonna apologize for that first and and then I'm gonna tell you you acted like a fool. But but I'm gonna look at myself first, right? And so yeah I I would say best bet best way to you know um you know best way to be better in anything point your finger back at yourself first.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Man that's great stuff. I I don't know the rotation that we're airing these conversations but that's three times in a row that we've asked this question and the uh the the the second fill in the blank the second blank has been look in the mirror look at yourself um be be better I forget exactly how it was said but it the same uh the same thing so we got some top level top shelf uh leaders uh that have been on our podcast recently and you just uh continue that streak Kevin Gall so thank you very much for that thanks for your time today you uh you made us better in in in in multiple areas you obviously have uh a lot of very um interesting roles there Baylor that can help us as we uh kind of add to our toolbox and and as high school athletic directors we're kind of the Swiss Army knife and you uh you you helped us with that for sure today on some uh some thoughts and how we can become better athletic administrators at our level so thanks a lot for that hey now as you uh prepped up you got your coffee uh we're gonna jump into our two minute drill Donna kick us off with that all right Kevin we're gonna hit you with some rapid fire questions you tell us the first thing that comes to your mind okay all right what was the first job you ever had ever in your life the first job the first real job that I got paid for ever in my life was working at a a small company that administrated that administered recalls for for uh for largely uh caterpillar products and so I would I would have to fax the recall notice to uh whoever had the caterpillar product uh and then call to follow up to make sure that they knew that they could get the recall part for free if they just filled this thing out and then I would just have to track that every day and uh report back kind of how I got what how much progress I was able to make uh in six hours doing that.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Fortunate for the opportunity very much motivated me to not want to have to do anything like that for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Yeah that sounds like a constant chasing rabbits right there now. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yeah wow all right maybe something a little more uh fun to think about what is the best thing on the menu at Hellberg Barbecue we we got Hellberg Barbecue we had it on Christmas Eve um the best thing on the menu at Hellberg Barbecue is the um it's actually the the smoked pork steak the uh that they do everything great but not a lot of places have a smoked pork steak that's uh that's a unique bite I don't know if I've ever had one but uh yeah yeah that sounds uh intriguing now let's play a game of this or that so we're gonna give you two things and you gotta pick one so this or that okay so mountains or the beach mountains I I would I would have been a beach person my wife is my wife has converted me we uh we we we do uh Colorado in the thick of the heat of the Texas summer is is kind of our our thing we do every year so definitely mountains well place nice retreat all right this or that pumpkin pancakes or chocolate chip pancakes depends on the time of year uh i would I would say I would say mid-October to to Thanksgiving let's go pumpkin every other time of the year let's go chocolate chip good deal uh NBA 2K or Madden NBA 2K just because it's my son's favorite and I love I love playing with him and uh he is uh he has become an NBA fan through it is always the Celtics Jason Tatum always torches me and uh and I usually can keep it close but but he he always beats me down the stretch.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

There you go. Alright last this or that question roller skates or ice skates?

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Is there a neither option there? I would be in the neither yes absolutely I've gotten to become a decent skier. I'm not not great at it either for the other two. Usually when there's rollerblading there is uh there is it's a usually at least my kids are there and there's some some great 80s and 90s music you can request and so uh and and it it maybe uh and and there's not the and there's not the coldness when you fall on your rear end like I will inevitably do either way. So if I had to pick I'd probably pick roller skill.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

All right what about this? What's an underrated leadership skill in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

An underrated leadership skill you know we already we already talked about asking great questions I think I think that is I think that is absolutely one he I'm I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you a really underrated rated leadership skill um taking great vacations okay wow and here's here's what here here's what I mean by it um you're not good for anybody if you're beat down if you're stressed out um you need to get away you need to have experiences that don't have anything to do with the office um you know there's there's the NFL films documentary on Bill Belichick and they talked about when he bought the place in uh Nantucket I guess or maybe Cape Cod and I think it was uh one of the Peter King from Sports Illustrated was saying he'd have ideas about his team when the wind was hitting his face sailing that he wouldn't have in the office. That is absolutely true. And so so whatever whatever it is and it doesn't have to be anything expensive but you you have to take great vacations and get refreshed and and think and you'll be a better leader because of it.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Yeah I heard you say right there now and maybe expand on that time out in the two minute drill you don't turn your mind off you just change your environment.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

That's a thousand percent right you you'll likely get to uh read some books that you maybe have been meaning to read that you haven't had a chance to um again on a hike or on a sailing trip or fishing things are going to come to you like you don't forget your job you don't forget the habits of your everybody I can't turn it off that's right you know but but you're you're you're you're you're clearing your mind and um and so whether it's whether you're uh a person of faith like me that believes that that maybe God has something he he wants to tell you during that period or or that there's intentionality around who you're with or what you're reading uh or maybe or maybe or maybe it's it's you you you just you've just been so um focused on the thing right in front of you right and my colleague Chad Jackson here likes to say we got a lot of people that uh uh he puts his hand in front of his face like this and they say they got so much right in front of them they can't see above it they can't see beyond it um taking a great trip uh and again that that that might just be that might just be in y'all's neck of the woods that might just be you know getting down to getting out to Stone Mountain or to Savannah or down or down to the um the Gulf Shore for for a weekend. Anything like that is good. Even going for a long drive and and and putting on Tom Petty and and and and singing you know singing free falling at the top of your lungs anything like that's really good because at the end of the day um your your your your body was only built to handle so much grind and so much stress um and you're you're a better you're you're you're you're you're you're your best self when you're not beaten down by by by everything.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

It's good. Yeah really really good great answer.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

What is a TV show or movie that everyone should watch um so I I'll admit I'm not the I'm not like the the best sort of pop culture up on the the latest thing. One of the ones that I really like because it's it's really practical is I love the the Seinfeld series comedians and cards getting coffee because they're about 18 minute episodes so you can you can watch one before you go to bed and they they get into a lot of conversations like this about about the why behind comedy and what works and the creative process and and and um it's really fascinating. I actually find a lot of it pretty universally universally app universally applicable. And so you know I I think in terms of just something fun that might give you a thought for the next day I love comedians and cars getting coffee.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

That's a good one. Now if there was a draft pick for your favorite candy bar what would be your number one draft pick um that's a really good question.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

I'm gonna cheat a little bit and I I would say it's not candy bar but it's candy. Trader Joe's has the dark chocolate things that are filled with peanut butter and whatever they put in those that those those are the best chocolate peanut butter things that exist. So the the Trader Joe's uh but but I I will I will give you a a I will give you a a uh uh an unpatriotic hot take I actually think the candy in Europe and in South America is better than American candy.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Oh wow interesting okay good good okay we'd like to finish with this our trademark question today Kevin Gall you've been hanging with the ADs but let's say you can hang out with anyone who would that be and why how how bright uh living or dead or we anyone anytime your choice yeah so um I would I I guess a lot of people say Jesus and I kind of feel like by Captain Sunday school you'd you'd want to say Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

I'm kind of fascinated by um you know um I'm kind of fascinated by uh people in really really uh in moments of choice and risk right um and so like I'd love to be in the room when the guys put their signature on the Declaration of Independence knowing what that meant right and just being like what has given you guys the courage to do this right um I'd I'd love to like I'd love to be in the jail cell with the Apostle Paul saying like how are you able to sing right now right um so I so I would say I I would say anytime uh like I'd I would love to be in really really pivotal moments um you know with with with with somebody that has a uh a decision of historical proportions in front of them and you know there's there's there's hundreds of those that that that would would uh would get a kick out of that's a great answer uh Kevin thank you so much for the time today we love the insight that we can get from our partners at the collegiate level and you did not disappoint uh you've helped us and our listeners get better and for that we are incredibly grateful.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

So thanks again.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Well I I very much appreciate it. And before we go you heard me talk about how much my high school basketball experience meant to me. I venture to guess you get you get you a lot of your listeners are high school coaches and administrators. And I just want to tell you the the the work that is done at the high school level is is foundational in terms of not just developing people for the college level or whatever, but just the next generation of leaders in our country. And so I I want to thank both of you for the work you guys do in your careers and your listeners and just just be encouraged that um man like you might not see the results of it for for for decades or whatever but the work you guys do matters and I appreciate your intentionality around it. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Thanks sir thanks guys how about that conversation I wonder if your pages are as full of notes as mine are I got three pages of notes right here full of great great wisdom from Kevin Gall, senior associate athletic director chief strategy officer for Baylor University Athletics I know why he's the chief strategy officer because he can get in the strategy for sure. He gave us so much here I don't even know where to start you go back and look at your notes I know some of the characteristics he gave us there talking about how the world is changing and how we have to stay in front of it talking about being adaptable being humble being intelligent being competitive having a great work ethic those are what makes a leader special in today's world I think we all agree Kevin is a special leader. He uh worked for one of the best coaches in the business talked about Scott Drew and you can see he's taking those uh things he learned for Scott Drew there and taking it to a whole nother level as an athletic administrator Baylor is really lucky to have Kevin Gall helping out and leading there um with the Bears. We are better today because of all the great knowledge that Kevin shared with us. You know once again we have another leader who says the best way to get better in anything is to look at yourself. Self-reflection it's amazing how common self-reflection is in these elite leaders' mind um they never they never say they've got there they never think they've made it they never think they have it figured out they are always looking in the mirror to figure out how to get better. He said the best leaders are introspective they look at themselves first they do it first they create an environment to serve others and to help others by getting themselves better each and every day. So Kevin Gall, thank you so much for joining us you made us better. Jamie Boggs thank you for the recommendation wow uh we owe it all to you out there at Grand Canyon but Kevin you uh delivered for us today you made us all better and I know the folks listening here are appreciative of that. And before you hang up I would appreciate you uh leaving us a rating or review on uh iTunes or Spotify or uh wherever you're listening from that'd be great to uh leave some comments we'd love to hear from you we heard from an athletic director recently it just said how much he appreciates the content man that made our day and we appreciate that uh from that particular athletic director there and as always thank you for spending your time hanging with the ADs