SPEAKER_00 0:04

We're listening to the End of Medi Podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and let's move on to our topic now for your host, Dr. Matthew and Don Baker.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Today we stay close to home and sit down with Kirk Call of Johns Creek High School in Johns Creek, Georgia. Kirk is wrapping up his first year as AD, and you'll find that he is wise beyond his years in the role as we talk about the transition from coach to AD and leadership in general. Let's settle in and get to know Mr. Kirk.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Kurt, we're so glad to have you joining Don and me for this episode of Hanging with the AD. We're glad to have another rookie AD joining us for some great insight today. So thanks for being with us.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Yeah, so for our listeners, Kurt Call is the athletic director at Johns Creek High School in Johns Creek, Georgia. Kirk is wrapping up year number one as athletic director, and that is the premise of our conversation today. But um before Kirk took over his AD last spring, he was the head girls basketball coach for a number of years there, as well as serving in several other capacities, volleyball coach, assistant AD, and I don't know what all else he did, but he was there a lot. So uh he has served a lot of time in a lot of ways at Johns Creek. But we'll stop right there and let Kirk tell us a little bit more about his journey through the world of athletics. Kurt, we like to call it the back of the baseball card bio. So if you could take a minute, tell us what the back of Kirk Call's baseball card will look like.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yeah, uh I mean I'll tell you, a journey through athletics has been has been fun, has been great for me. Never had really any intention of going this route uh until the last few years. But uh, you know, when I was in high school, uh my travel basketball team kind of had this little program where we worked with the younger travel basketball teams. And so I got my start coaching basketball, coaching eight to 10-year-old boys. Um, you know, that was a younger group out of my travel organization. And uh I'll never forget this moment that happened to me. You know, I'm this ninth grade boy and I'm down here trying to help, you know, other boys. I don't know what's going on yet. And all of a sudden, after you know, this this game, I I still remember the kid's name, his name's Frankie, and he's crying after the game. And he was our best player. I mean, he was good, like he scored and everything else, and he was crying. And uh, I had to go and sit down and talk with him, and and I'll just never forget thinking to myself during that time, um, you know, what it meant for me to just sit down and talk to Frankie after the game, as opposed to just coaching the game and going through. Um, and so that was kind of the first time where I felt like, you know, this is what I should do and this is how I should approach that. And then just moving on uh through college, coaching middle school teams and then uh coaching basketball at the high school level for 22 years, and like you said, did a lot of different things. Uh, I think I've coached everything but fencing and probably swimming and track, uh, you know, over my time. And so real unique perspective.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

You never know, as an AD, you may get a chance to do that any to any day now, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I I need to keep that on my resume, right? So that I can be like, oh yeah, I've done that before. Um, but then really this avenue for me kicked off probably during the pandemic. Um, as I'm sitting at home and kind of going through some things and honestly just thinking to myself, as we as we all learn how to deal with that, um, that I should be doing more. Um, and that it was it was just a little bit, I hate to put it this way, but it was a little bit selfish of me to just coach one sport or coach one team when I felt like there was there was more I could offer. Um, and that was the first time in my career that I had ever felt that full at all. Uh, but then once I did, you know, uh Stephen Kraft, um Jason Holcomb, my AD here in the um past Fulton County AD, got me involved in the cohort and I just started to kind of learn about the position and um you know, just no turning back since then. It's it's been a ride.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

That's really good. That quote, I should be doing more. I think we we we all get to a point um you know in our careers where we get to be a little bit more comfortable uh with you know that day-to-day or whatever, but that feeling that tug, I should be doing something more. There's a lot of power in that, I think.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Don, I think it uh I'm sorry to interrupt you there, but I I was gonna expand on it too. I think it shows Kirk's leadership uh capabilities versus the average coach or the average person that we know has walked in our office and said, Hey, I I I I want to spend more time with my family or I want to do this, and I only want to coach one sport, my sport, whatever, versus what Kirk just said of I want to do more. That's the difference in average and elite, I think, right there. And that's that's well said.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Now, Kurt, talk about moving from the coaching chair to the AD chair. We have had several of our guests who have made that same move in the schools where they're coaching. I did that as well. Um, and maybe talk about some of the pros and cons or challenges that came with moving out of that coach's locker room and into that AD role there at Johns Creek. I know for me, it took three days for it to get weird, where we were we were coaching and we'd eat lunch together and all that kind of stuff. And I went in there for three days, and all of a sudden, this is a different vibe, and it's a little weird, and maybe I need to kind of take a step back. And now that I'm with their supervisor or boss, uh maybe talk about that transition, uh, especially in the same place.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah, uh, definitely, definitely had some of those moments. Um, but the pros of it are obviously the relationships you already have in the building. Um, I I can tell you, I don't think that I would have been able to make the transition in the same building if I didn't have good relationships with the other coaches, um, whether it was, you know, working out schedules before sharing athletes, whatever the case may be. Um, but that was definitely a pro on one hand, because you know, I knew them, but on the other hand, it became a con when the coach had to come to me and ask for something. And now I can't have that discussion that coaches have away from the athletic office about like, oh, I'm frustrated about this, I'm frustrated about that. You know, I'd had those conversations before, but now I'm having to have the conversation as the athletic director of like, hey, this is why this can't happen. This is why we can't do that. You know, I can't put 20% of my budget into a single program. Like, that's I get where you're coming from and I recognize that as a concern. But as an athletic department, we also have to balance and make sure things are equitable and going through. Um, so the pros of that were definitely the relationships there. And another big pro that I feel like has been my relationships with student athletes. Um, if I walked in the door as an AD at a new building, I wouldn't know those athletes. You know, I wouldn't have coached them, I wouldn't have seen their friends in the stands, I wouldn't have conversations in the class going through. And so the fact that I knew people in the building, uh, I I guess kind of bought me maybe a little bit of grace coming in to where they were like, hey, you know, we know this guy, like let's let's kind of work through and see what happens here. Um and so that part was, like I said, an advantage early, but definitely once it gets to that weird point, it can become a con because then it's like, well, wait, we're friends. It's like, yeah, we are friends, and we're still gonna be friends after this. Um, but it's it's one of those things that goes back to coaching a team and you have a staff meeting, you know, where you're in that, you're in the coach's office and you're discussing strategies and everything else. Um, you know, you can disagree with me behind these closed doors, we can get after it as much as we want to, we can go nose to nose. But when we walk out that door, we're together, you know, and you know, you've got to respect where I'm coming from, and I've got to respect where you're coming from. And so the fact that those relationships were there that we could mutually kind of have a discussion, I think allowed me to address problems quickly. Um, you know, and it's and it's been good, but I will say too that I'm a pretty stubborn guy. And so when I see things that need to kind of be done, um I don't back off of them. And and I think that coaches have had to learn that side of me, that my expectations are to a standard, and if they're not met, like I'm gonna keep coming at you.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah, I think that's really good because you when you talk about that relationship piece that you they know you in a certain venue, they know you with a certain hat on, but then you have to now articulate the why behind decisions that are made, uh, which is something you touched on. And then on the other side of that, that piece of trust. Like trust is such a huge part of leadership in general. And you kind of walk in in that situation being kind of promoted from within, that trust piece is already there, right? And so it's not something you have to really generate or create, it's already there, and that helps uh in that transition. So I think I think that's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Yeah, I think that stubbornness is good. I think we all have it as we get into this role. But to to know that and to know you can you you're gonna keep coming at them, as you said. That's important not to, you know, let down your guard there because you you like you said, you want to meet a certain standard. That's your standard now, and they've got to meet that and help you meet that as well. It's a team effort, but uh you set that standard, which I think is really good. So um so we talked about a month or so ago at a basketball game. You were about 10 months into this uh this gig. Um, but you and I, we had just gotten back from the NADC, the national AD conference there in Orlando. And it seemed to me that you had turned a corner from drinking through a fire hose to actually doing some valuable reflection and planning for year two, which will be coming up uh here in a couple months. First of all, what allowed this mindset shift? What allowed you to shift? Because everybody who's gone through it, there may be someone listening right now, right in the middle of year number one, or maybe they just got the keys and the fire hose is already turned on, right? But eventually we make that shift. I think you've made it a little bit quicker than a lot of us. What allowed you to make that shift?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Well, I think being in the same building helped, you know, because a lot of the relationship building didn't have to take some time there. But I feel like the other thing about, you know, kind of to build off of that last answer, I'm stubborn, but I'm gonna listen, you know, and one of the things that I did and I accepted as I took this role is I had been in the building for, you know, eight years and I knew everybody, but I was still gonna go and meet with them individually and I was gonna allow them the time to talk with me in my new role. Number one, to establish the fact that I'm listening from a different perspective than I was when we were coaching and sitting at the same table there. Um, but then number two, to also give them the sense that uh I am here to serve, you know, and I am here to help them and to go through that. And so um I feel like I took that on and I was very diligent about taking on that finding my way to serve. Um, but I also felt very strong and comfortable being down in Orlando and listening and sitting through some workshops and kind of going through. Um, I started to gain a little bit of confidence in what the school's already doing and some of the thoughts that I had had in my head, I just kind of got some reinforcement that that was going down the right path. And so coming back from that, I I really, you know, I took over last April, mid-year, and so had the summer to kind of do a few things, but then coming back in December, I just really got to a good, peaceful mindset of I've listened. Like I have paid attention. Um, you know, I haven't come in and thrown a ton at them, but it is also time for me to start to place my standard on our athletic department and what my expectations are.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

That's really good. Drabbing some dimes, finding my way to serve.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

You know, this this whole conversation is around being a first year AD. So some of us old folks could say, man, this is not about me. I did this a long time ago, but uh you you're changing that uh tone real fast. There's a lot to learn here. Uh we can see, you know, you're gonna be a big time uh leader in this AD world. You know, you already are in a lot of spaces. Wanted to follow that up. You you kind of hit on it there. What is the value in attending that national conference, especially as a first-year AD? Had you attended national conferences as a basketball coach, or was this new to you? Uh, I think there are probably different formats if you had. And what would be different about you if you had not attended that in ADC?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah, so I've got to give a big shout out to Mike McCoy. He was the head basketball coach when I first started at Parkview High School a couple of decades back now. But he he is the one who instilled in me the importance of going to clinics and continuing your development. And I got to see a honestly a lot sitting around like a coaching clinic and just the conversations around the table that turned into, well, how do you, you know, I'm gonna put it in basketball terms here, but how do you deal with a triangle and two defense? Or, you know, when matchup zones became a big thing in high school basketball, like how are you attacking this? You know, and just seeing the the free flow exchange of ideas among colleagues. Um, and so as a very young coach, I saw that and I recognized how important that was to continue to do. And so when I was having conversations to go move forward in this role and to, you know, ultimately take this job on, it was one of my key points that I asked of my principal is I need this opportunity to go to these conferences year after year, uh, because if I get comfortable, I need to move on. And I don't want to be comfortable. Um, you know, as I used to say this to my athletes all the time during practice, if you have a perfect practice, you didn't get better today. And I don't want to have a perfect day. Like I want to push the envelope, um, I want to find ways to improve and just to continue to pursue greatness, um, you know, for lack of a better way to put that. And so, you know, the NADC down in Orlando was honestly a it was a first-time experience for me, but it was exactly what I wanted out of it, um, and just honestly just continued to invigorate me to continue the professional development piece and to go through it um all the way through because it's it's incredibly valuable. What and it doesn't have to be like a, oh, look, you got this great idea. It can just be a conversation with a colleague that confirms a thought you had, no matter how big or how small you thought it was. Um, because you know, if we if we can help one, then it's worth it.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

So it sounds like too. I mean, you just said that, and you'd also talked about how um you realized y'all were doing some good things at Johns Creek there while you were at the conference uh through those conversations. You came back with a different perspective than a lot of us come back with. Sometimes we go to those legal classes or we have conversations with people who have different resources and are doing things differently. And we come back wishing we could do it better and kind of sometimes think we're not doing a good job. You came back with an optimistic attitude and a reinforced uh mindset that, hey, we're doing some good things at Johns Creek. And I think that's a a very positive mindset. Uh, maybe John Gordon had something to do with that because he spoke, but uh no, that's uh that's a great mindset that I think we can all learn from of how to come bring back the positive, not bring back the negative.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah, and I mean, I'll tell you one, and I know we've had some conversations kind of off of this, but several of the things that I brought back from that conference were how to celebrate the things we were doing well and what some other schools across the country did, uh, you know, to celebrate their athletes or to celebrate their teams. Um, and so that was honestly a real big thing for me coming back was how am I going to celebrate what we're doing well?

SPEAKER_02 17:27

I think that's that's too another thing that a lot of people that will go to that NADC that can be a very overwhelming experience, right? And I think that uh it's uh I if I have that I don't I have a ton of regrets in this gig, but I do have one that I didn't get started going to the NADC sooner because uh it is uh an unbelievable resource, uh a collection of people uh that you can learn from. And Josh, I know that you you're a little more connected than I am, but we need to get this, make sure that Phil listens to this. This is a a uh a poster for why the NADC is a you know is a good thing. But I was just thinking that.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

I was like, man, he's about to drop a couple of lines here that they're gonna want to play on the big board.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

I'm telling you. Well, and again, yeah, if I get comfortable, I need to move on. Like that's again, wise beyond the the the time in the role, uh, but and not necessarily your veteran educator, but uh just as far as its role goes, just absolutely crushing it. Now, how would you advise that first year AD? Most are going to get named sometime during the summer and at the start of the beginning of the school year. Um, you like me uh started at spring break, and I don't wish that on anybody. So I don't know about you, but uh I was teaching half the day and taking over being the AD, so that was brutal. But maybe talk about that a little bit now that you've basically crossed that finish line of year one as an AD, uh that transitional advice that you would give to a brand new AD, he's gonna get the keys this summer.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yeah, uh, you know, I'll I'll quote uh Stephen Kraft on this one. Uh, pick up the phone. You know, pick up the phone. You know, there is uh this is not an egotistical position. You know, if you think you got it figured out, you're wrong. Uh because as soon as you do, you're gonna find out you don't. Um, and so I still remember going through the AD cohort classes here in Fulton. And I mean, in every single one of those sessions, it was pick up the phone, pick up the phone, you know, uh, don't feel like you got it figured out because none of us do, you know. I mean, you guys have done this for a long time, and you'll come across a situation next week where you pick up the phone and you call somebody and you're like, hey, I just had this happen. Like, what the heck? I have no clue here, what's going on? Like, you know, and we all have ideas, but just like going down to that conference kind of confirms some of my thoughts. Sometimes you just need to confirm some thoughts, you know, you need to go through. Um, and and I remember there was a time, and it and that's one of those things where I feel like I'm not that way. Like, I feel like I will pick up the phone and call if I need help and things of that nature. But there was a situation down at the conference in Orlando. I had coached with a lady down at down in Fayette County several, several years back now, um, who's now a a uh district AD in Metro Atlanta. And she was having a conversation with uh Lamar Glenn, who's our current AD in Fulton County, and you know, she was kind of ribbing me a little bit and letting me have it, uh, ultimately asking Lamar how I was doing. And I was real proud of the fact that the first thing out of Lamar's mouth was he doesn't know he's gonna call. That's the best thing about him is he's gonna pick up the phone and he's gonna call. And so that would be the single biggest thing I'd say to a new AD is don't be too proud to pick up the phone. Um, you know, you would much rather get some insight and handle it rather than handle it poorly, and then you got a whole whole nother mess on your hands. Um, and so just put your ego, you know, in check and and remember that you're here for kids. Honestly, you're here for coaches to help kids, and so don't be afraid to find out the best way to do that.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

That's good. We say a lot, we've talked about it a lot, Don and I have with other guests, and we talk about it offline as well. The power of saying I don't know as a leader is immeasurable. And you just said it in a different way. Pick up the phone and say, I don't know, or I need help with. And when you see a leader or someone who uh is in a leadership spot and they just make something up and instead of saying I don't know, it just, it just, it causes chaos. It causes credibility issues when you just said you made a huge impression. On the guy above you. You're, you know, not boss, but the guy above you, the district AD, because he says he'll call and ask and he'll say, I don't know. And that's a that's a huge positive there. And I think that is a great piece of advice for brand new ADs and leaders in general. So that's really good. So, Kurt, we just talked about the first year AD. You just gave them advice. Now let's talk about the coach who's listening. The person still sitting in that chair that you were sitting in a year ago, that we were sitting in a number of years ago, right? We pretty much all of us have come from that coaching spot. You basically, as we've chronicled already, went from being the head girls basketball coach, finishing your season in February, doing inventory and putting the season to bed in March, and bam, spring break, first week in April, you are now promoted to athletic director and you're no longer a coach. What's the biggest thing you can teach coaches about how different the thinking has to be from thinking myophically about their sport versus thinking about the entire athletic program? You kind of alluded to it earlier, but get down in the weeds and really spend some time preaching to that coach a little bit. I know we don't want to preach at them, but you know, you you it's fresh still. You you were just in that chair a year ago. You know, I think when we can learn how to think like the people above us, then we can be more productive, more efficient, and more grounded in the big picture purpose, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah, yeah. Um it's funny. I mean, I'm I'm going through this now, right? I think every AD goes through it every single year. This is a never-ending process and going through. Um, and one of the things that I have really focused intentionally myself on is I need to show the coaches their value. Um, I need them to understand what they bring to our program. Um, because the biggest thing that's going to cause that conversation along the lines of, well, my program this and my program that is when they feel like they have to fight for their program. And I feel like it's my job to let them know that they're supported, um, that I believe in their program and that they have everything they need. Um, you know, so show them their value as a coach, as part of our coaching staff, and show the value of their program to our overall athletic department. Um, and it's it's I'm not saying it's easy by any means. It's difficult because honestly, what you need is you need that first coach to step out on the ledge and trust what you're saying. And when that first coach puts that trust in you, then the second coach will follow suit. And then it and then you know it's it builds on itself, um, which is another challenge we face with coaching turnover nowadays, because you know, you've got somebody that's in your corner and helps lead your culture, and they they move on to a better position or a different position or whatever, and you have to start that over. And so it is very, very similar to to teaching a math classroom, to coaching a team, you know, leading them through practice or anything else. Um, you have your standards and you have to understand and communicate your standards, but once you do, you have to have that stubbornness to you. You know, it can't be like, oh, you know, he's a buddy of mine. Like, I know he didn't mean that. Like, you know, you've got to have that stubbornness. Um, and you know, I'm a big fan of the show The Office, you know, and so watching that episode where Michael Scott finally had to pull Stanley aside and said, Hey, I'm your boss, you can't do that here. You know, it took him a lot to get to that point, but that's just something that we all deep down have to have to live with in our role. And it's like, hey, we're good friends. Like, I'm I'm gonna see you in church on Sunday or I'm gonna see you at dinner later tonight. But right here, right now, this is the expectation and the standard of our department. And I need you to understand your role in fitting into that and your role in leading that, um, which is honestly, you know, um, I know we're talking first year AD and everything else. This is the thing that I've circled as my biggest challenge is how can I take the step from leading a team, you know, of teenage kids and leading them through there to leading a coaching staff and getting the coaching staff to buy into the athletic department vision, not just for themselves, but so much so that they start communicating that down to their teams. And we really build the culture that we search. Um, you know, when we sit there at night, lay up late at night thinking about stuff.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

That's that's so good. That that idea about showing coaches their value, and then that really shaping what I think is a critical piece of leadership, and that's that internal narrative, right? You talked about how when the coaches talk about whether it be a decision that you make or whatever, it's like when you talk about uh whether it be teachers in a building or even parents in a household, where if my wife says something to one of my kids, they come to me to complain about it. It's not like I go, Well, that's what your mom said, you know, and may I just make her you just put it off on her. You know, it's like, no, that yeah, that is that is what we're doing. You know, the power of that internal narrative so that it's not always, you know, just coming from you, but the ability for them to kind of reinforce your message, I think is huge. Um, and maybe talk about that. So moving into next year, uh, let's kind of fast forward a little bit. I know that you've talked to Josh about some of your takeaways from the NADC, and you were talking about how you were called to develop a personal leadership philosophy. Uh, maybe where did that challenge come from? And what why do you think that it's really important for where you want to take Johns Creek athletics in the future?

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah, um single single biggest challenge for me. I I don't I have no problem admitting this, I'll sell it to anybody and everybody, is self-reflection. Um, you know, it is hard for me. Um, and it's it's something where as a coach, I used to have people, I used to send friends my game film and be like, hey, scout us, what am I not seeing? Like, what am what am I missing? What's going on? Because it's hard for me because you're connected to it. You know, you're in it every day and you're fighting for that and you're going through. Um, but I think it's one of the things that I feel like I've really been forced to do over the course of the last whatever it is, 10 months, almost a year now, um, is stop uh stop beating around the bush and be honest with myself. You know, if if there's a coach that's not living up to standards, it it's up to me to go have that conversation, you know, and we want to give coaches the freedom to lead their teams and to do things, uh, but if there's something going on that is driving a negative side into our culture piece, that's got to be addressed. And uh, you know, one of the quotes from NIAA is, you know, if you're not coaching it, you're letting it happen. And so if I'm not gonna go have that conversation, then those coaches are gonna see that. And it just drives a stake right through the value piece that I'm trying to drive into each and every program and each and every coach that goes through there. Um and so it's a it's a it's a tough aspect for me to really go through, but I love the way that I was challenged to kind of find and actually put words on paper and not just think in my head, but actually write down words about what is my vision, what is my statement. Um, Josh gave me a great exercise, uh, you know, with the the bracket and words that describe our position and kind of letting coaches fill in a bracket about which word means more than another word, and then using that to kind of get a pulse for where your athletic department is. And so driving forward over these next, you know, we're right in the middle of spring now, but as we get into that late April, May, and then into the summer where we get a little bit more reflection time, um, that's that's where I feel like I'm headed, um, is really working hard to identify so that I can communicate and put on paper what is that vision statement, you know, what are we striving for? Uh, because I can walk down the hall and I can have a conversation and they'll feel a certain way, but if there's value in putting that down and actually and and letting everyone see it, you know, because everyone feels conversations a different way. And so, you know, I I definitely see the need, and that's something that I'm pushing for, is to get that vision really identified and stated, not just thought about, but actually stated.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

It's good. Yeah, good luck. I I know that's a big a big thing for you. And it's hard, it's hard when you have a large group and they're spread out over different schools and different, you know, sports, and one's in season, one's out of season, and you're trying to bring them all together to talk about something that sometimes coaches don't see the value in. Like you said, you want to put on paper what are we striving for? What's our vision, and their vision is to win to win the next game, right? Or win the first game, whatever it is. And uh, but it is it's a huge piece of the overall department, right? The standard, as you said. I like that. That's really good. So wish you the best in that. Hopefully, uh, I know it'll work out well because you got a good, uh, a good path and a and a good uh a good vision for it. So hey, let's talk about uh your predecessor and talk about transition a little bit. Um you took over, you followed a really good athletic director. Uh your pre he did a fine job of building things there at Johns Creek. And I think that's why you said when you went to the NADC, you came back and realized, hey, we're doing a lot of good things here. You'd only been leading it for six, seven months at the time, or maybe nine months, I guess. Um, and you realized, hey, this is a good place. He did a good job. Uh obviously he moved on to a prestigious district level AD, which was well deserved and spoke volumes for his leadership there, but it also meant he left a big footprint behind, right? Sometimes that can be good, sometimes that can be bad or both, right? How have you navigated the lasting influence while trying to lead in your stubbornness? And let's use your word. I like that. It's better than what we had here on our script. Um, you know, our former pastor or former, my pastor, who's a former guest of ours, Clay Smith, he's known for saying, I'm not here to fill my predecessor's shoes. I'm here to fill my own shoes. But Lannis Robinson, another former guest and grade eight athletic director in Tampa, he talked about a 2060-100 rule, not changing more than 20% in year one. So, so you're you're not, you don't want to, you don't want to go too fast, right? Um, there may be folks out there about to take over for a popular, accomplished leader. There may be people taking over uh an organization that's in disarray, and that's a whole different conversation. But folks who are taking over for a popular, accomplished leader who had friends in the building, did things a certain way, a good way. What is your counsel to them? And also maybe speak on how your predecessor set you up for success as well of leading in your own fashion.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah, um, I think a lot of it goes back to that word ego. You know, I I don't need the credit for what goes on at Johns Creek. I mean, it is it is a communal effort at all times in the athletic world. Um, you know, and it's it's the same thing as when we were coaching before, you know, when things went well, it was the players, when things went bad, it was the coaches, you know, and it's the same thing for us. When when things are going well, it's our coaches who are doing a great job of leading. You know, when things go poorly, it's hey, that's on me. Like, let me figure out a way to help and go through this. Um, and you know, you're 100% right. Jason really um kind of took the Johns Creek athletic department up a notch or up several notches with respect to doing things the right way, um, kind of handling and modernizing the way our athletics was run and marketed and publicized, uh, you know, getting some of the stuff that maybe hadn't been done prior to him, which I wasn't here prior to Jason, so I can't really speak to. Um, but just kind of establishing a standard for this is what we do, this is how we work, this is when we meet and we go through. Um, and you know, when I walk in, there's not a whole lot that has to change as far as operational kind of day-to-day. You know, the operational was good. Um, there are some things on the periphery that you have to put your imprint on, you know, and like uh one of the things that I try to make sure I do is I try to walk my building at least once a week and see every coach face to face. Um, I never want them to think that my only communication is an email or a phone call. Um, you know, and so that's very difficult in our job because we get busy, you know, but at least once a week I try to see my coaches face to face. Um, you know, I loved yesterday, I I walked outside and uh, you know, I pull up and I'd gone up to the baseball field, and uh my son's up there being the bat boy for the team. So I get him all situated and then he's up there, and then I come back down to the track. And right in front of me, I've got a track assistant coach who's working on baton handoffs, you know, our soccer team's on this end of the stadium turf, our boys soccer teams on the other end, our pole vaulters are going here, and every kid out there is just they're doing something to improve. And I I honestly I just stood there for about five minutes and just kind of took it all in because that's not something you need to run from, you know, and that's that was kind of a standard and a setup that was here, and so don't run from what's working well, you know. Try to find ways to improve. And if you do this, if you're if you sit there long enough, people are gonna come tell you what's wrong. Like, don't worry, they're gonna come tell you what's wrong. Um, and so you're gonna have plenty of opportunities to fix stuff. Um, so don't just go in and try to fix just to fix. Like, take your time, um, recognize what's being done well, and that'll make you better appreciate when you get to a point to where something does need your attention.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Oh man, that the that again straight dimes. The the the the idea of just taking a minute to pause, just take it in. It's not all always bad. You know, I think it's very easy in this position to think it's always bad. You know, I I can't tell you how many times I'll go, I'll just go to an event and I'm just going to the event to just watch the event, right? And then somebody comes up to you and it starts out as a normal conversation. And then you get the hey, well, I got you here. You know, and then I know exactly where that's going, right? Like the the the entire deal of you coming over here was really to get some information about a problem that you have or whatever. But in those moments where that's where that sucker is moving and it's it's got, you know, every kid is engaged and coaches are coaching and learning and getting better. I think that that is really we don't do that enough. I think as ADs, we we need to just pause and just take those moments in because that's the real work. That's the real benefit of what you're doing. So I think that's great.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Well, and especially, you know, you sit there and you just you just see the kids like looking at the coach, you know, and you see that respect that's there and you see them trying to learn. And you know, just in the without turning your head, just the vision, you can see five different coaches working with five different sets of kids. Um, and and it's honestly how I wish we would approach our classrooms a little bit more and not just put everybody in the middle of the field and like be like, hey, we're doing this, but like, no, we're like this is what you need to work on. And so I'm gonna work with you on this, you know, coach, you're gonna work with them on this, and and you know, you it's it's a differentiation model in practice, and just to see their growth in the five minutes I was standing there. I mean, it's you know, you take do that once or twice a week, and you can deal with the negatives that come up in this position. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Yeah, that's great, great uh motivation for the new person getting in it, maybe even better and more motivation for the uh cynical old person who is dealing with problems. And, you know, all we see is the the bad or the stuff not getting done the way we want it to do it to get done is go just go get that perspective of seeing growth and watching coaches coach. I know at games, I I find myself, I don't know if our coaches know it or not. I find myself glancing over and watching the coaches. I I'm not really watching the kids as much as I'm watching the coaches because you do get to see exactly what you're you're talking about, that plan and all that effort that they have put in place get implemented, and it's fun to do that. So that's cool. Hey, uh Kirk, one more question before we get to our two-minute drill. Uh, this is kind of a new question this year. Uh it's good, it's a double fill in the blank. We're gonna let you solve the equation here or fill in the statement of whatever, whatever. If you're an English person or math person, you can uh call it what you want to call it there. So I'm gonna I'm gonna give you this statement. It's two blanks, and you fill in the blanks anywhere you want to go with it or any way you want to uh answer, it'd be great. So here it is. The best way to become better at blank is to become better at blank. Give you another chance to think about it. The best way to become better at blank is to become better at blank.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Oh man, I I don't even have to think about it. It's uh it's it's one of the things that I try to strive for every single day. Um, but the way the best way to become better at leading is to become better at listening. Oh yeah, I mean, it's it is honestly just one of those things where I really, really strive for that. Um, because like I said earlier, I don't have all the answers. You know, I know I don't have all the answers. Um, and so if you really want to become an effective leader, then build a relationship with the people you're leading, listen to them and talk to them, and you know, you're you're gonna be able to accomplish any goal you set forth. Um, you know, you walk in on day one and you try to win a state championship, you're gonna fail. You know, but you walk in on day one and you build relationships, no matter where that season ends up, you you won. Um and if you do that enough, then the the the I I hate to put it this way, but the outside rewards will come, you know. Um so yeah, I mean to me that's just uh that's a no-brainer and something I really strive for.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Usually I would sum up uh uh your conversation here. What I would tell people listening and what I will do when I listen to this thing when it and when it publishes, I'm gonna hit that rewind button, that back 15 seconds uh a couple different times so I can get back to the beginning of that question and uh listen to your response right there. That was absolutely gold. And the best way to become better at leading is to become better at listening. And then you added just a ton of depth to it. So thanks so much. Appreciate you making this better. I know you've made the first year AD better, the brand new AD better, and you made all of us better today. So thanks for that. And I let's do a little two-minute drill, have a little fun here.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

All right, Kirk. We're gonna hit you with some rapid fire questions. You just tell us the first thing that comes to your mind, okay?

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

What was the first job you ever had ever in your life? First job you ever had? Public stock work.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Public grocery store. I I did the uh when I was in high school, I worked at the overnight shift.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

I was a grocery store guy too, but uh not the overnight shift. All right, what is the best thing that is cooked on a grill?

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Let's play a game of this or that. So we're gonna give you two things. You gotta pick one of them. Okay, so this or that. Tacos or pizza? Tacos. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

This or that, dolls or cats?

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Dolls. This or that. Going out or staying in.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

I'll go, I'll I'll choose staying in um because that's more of a family. We can be together a little bit more when we stay in.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

All right, last this or that. Roller coasters or water park rides?

SPEAKER_01 43:18

I guess that depends on which kid I've got with it. My son, it'll be water park.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Yeah. Uh what is the best piece of advice that you've ever received?

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Wow. Um you know, in in my current role, this is this has impacted me so many times, and I try to say this to a lot of people. Um, but especially when I was young, you know, I was 21, 22, coming out of college, coaching girl basketball, only three or four years younger than me, you know. So uh, but my very first A B his name was Carl Bostik, uh high school.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

Uh Hall of Famer, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Yeah, Hall of Famer. Uh he looked at me one day. And we were going through a situation, and he told me this one sentence that's always stuck with me. And he said, if I'm standing at the top of a hill and I look down, and your team and you are standing at the bottom of the hill, I should know who the coach is. And that has just always kind of stuck with me about you can build relationships and you can love people and you can support them, but don't lose the coach-player relationship or the leader-follower relationship to the point to where when people are around your team, they don't know who is it. Um, because there's gonna come a time when tough decisions have to be made, and you've got to have that relationship.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

That's interesting. I'm gonna stop here and make a comment. Uh I think I've talked about this on here before, and you bring it up. That's a great uh perspective. Saw a year or two ago there was a middle school football event. I don't I don't know what state doesn't matter. Um, but the brawl broke out, right? The fight broke out, we see too much of that. And as I watched it, my whole time, and then rewinding, I think Don and I talked about it. It's like, who is the athletic director? And I talk about it a lot in how you dress. Is there something special you wear as the AD for big events? You can't do it for every event, but for big events, do they know who the AD, the game manager is? And that's that's exactly what Coach Bostik, I guess, was alluding to there a little bit, maybe not in high stress, but who the leader is. You know, that's that's great advice there. The other thing, Coach Bostik, that I have learned uh that I took that I was uh fortunate to learn through a coach of ours, is take down the goal post in the spring for your spring season. I had a soccer coach say I want to take down the goalpost. And I said, I don't think they come down. I don't know what you're talking about. He said, We took them down every year at Parkview, and sure enough, it it makes a huge difference in the look of the field. It helps you get them straight when you put them back up and adjust them and all that. But that was a Carl Bostik uh nugget as well. So that's great. G A D A Hall of Famer giving that good advice there. 100%. All right, if you could attend one sporting event in the past or future, which one would it be?

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Man, uh I I guess probably it'd go back to which kids with me, you know. Um Annabelle, we're going to the World Cup, you know, gotta go see that and work through. But uh, you know, Eddie, uh Eddie, my son, I'm I'm pretty sure he'd be pretty stoked about going to watch Alabama play in a in a title game for college football or or even maybe a Super Bowl. But um, you know, we've been very blessed. We've been able to go to uh the World Series games with the Braves a few years back and things of that nature. But yeah, we'll have the World Cup opportunity in a few years. Annabelle reminds me of that every day.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

So I guess I'll probably have to go to that one. That's good. All right, if there was a draft for your favorite candy bar, what would be your number one draft pick?

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Oh man. Uh wait, I don't like that question. Hey, look, I've got a couple of favorites here. I'm gonna I'm gonna upset one company. Um I I guess I'd probably go with the Snickers. Um, you know, I I don't know uh if it's that much better than a Twix. Those are my two go-tos. Um but I I guess I'd probably overall go with the Snickers.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Nice. All right, let's finish with this. It's our trademark question today. Coach Kirk call, you've been hanging with the ADs, but let's say you can hang out with anyone, who would that be and why?

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Um you know, my uh my stepfather passed away when I was a senior in high school. Um and he was only my um I only got to know him for a couple of years before he passed away. You know, he came into our labs when I was in ninth grade, uh, passed away when I was a senior, so just a couple of years there. Um but his impact on me in just a short period of time was pretty profound in how he kind of saw things and just his perspective. Um, you know, so he would definitely be somebody that I I would love to just sit down and and talk with. Um and then on a professional level, I I mean to sit down and talk to Nick Saban just about leadership and about the process and the standard that he's so famous for and just how to be that dedicated over that long a period of time uh to something like that, just I think would be tremendous just to listen to. Um so I I'd probably uh sit down and talk with Hector, my stepfather, first, and you know, if I had a second choice, I'd love to sit down and listen to Saban talk for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Bill Kurt, thank you so much for the time today. We always love shining a light on one of Georgia's own, and you did not disappoint. So thanks again. Oh, thank you guys. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

So a couple years ago, we had a group of first-year athletic directors come on, and we were blown away by their maturity in the role of athletic administrator after only one year. And again, today we had a similar uh situation. Kirk Call finishing up his first year as athletic director at Johns Creek High School in Johns Creek, Georgia. Kirk uh took over in a in a unique spot there at spring break, coming right out of his girls' basketball season, and uh that's different. But Kirk, man, he has grown immensely. Uh he went from drinking through a fire hose in that first um summer and semester to now being in a reflective state of how he wants to take Johns Creek athletics to a different level as their uh leader as athletic administrator. So I I was blown away standing at a basketball game a couple weeks ago talking to him and now having him speak to us, to you. Uh if you're like me and you were taking notes, every question has multiple notes under it. I have a three pages of blue ink. Kirk, man, he filled our bucket today with some serious, good nuggets and none more profound than his reflection as a coach a couple years ago saying I should be doing more. That is that's that's countercultural in our day and age, right? Most people are trying to do less. Kirk said, I should be doing more, and that led him to pursuing this athletic director position and calling. And I tell you what, watching him as a as a colleague in his region, Kirk is a phenomenal leader. He gets it done, and Johns Creek's gonna uh they they are they were already at high levels based on their former AD as we talked about in this episode, and Kirk's got a plan to take them to another high level. It's hard, hard to find a first-year AD who has vision and the work ethic and the desire and the love and the care for his people and his programs, his students, and his school. And Kirk's right there, man. He's he's been a sponge for everything that the leaders above him have taught him through his uh travels and coaching and teaching. He mentioned several different people and uh everybody he mentioned, he brought up a nugget that he has soaked up from them. And that's a lesson to us all, man. We can all be learning as we're taking steps day by day. So Kirk, thanks for joining us. Thanks for making us better. If you have a first year A D in your building, go love on them and hug on them. If you are a first year A D and you're at the end of that uh that that first year, congratulations. You made it through the hardest time. Uh find somebody, pick up the phone and call them so they can tell you you've done a great job. You have done a great job, and it will get easier and easier, but it doesn't get any less busy, it just gets more common to what you do, and you'll keep wanting to make your place better, just like Kirk is wanting to make Johns Creek better. Great job, Kirk. Uh pulling for you over there, Johns Creek, always here for you. And uh thanks for being with us today. We would love for you to leave us a rating or review. Tell us what you think about this conversation with Kirk Call on your podcast platform there. If you don't mind, leave us some star ratings, leave us some comments, that'd be great. And as always, thank you for spending your time hanging with the ADO, and I'm gonna go to the house.