SPEAKER_00 0:04

You're listening to the Hanging with the AD Podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and listen to it through leadership. Now, here are your hosts, Josh Matthews and Don Baker.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Welcome to another special episode of the Hanging with the AD Podcast. I know that our as hosts, we're really not supposed to pick favorites, uh, but I've gone on the record saying this is my favorite episode each season. Brian Dodd is not only a great source of leadership information through his blog Brian Dodd on Leadership that sees over 70,000 readers per month, but also through his books, one of which we're going to dive into today, and his pursuit of service podcast. But more importantly, he is a friend who always makes time for us as we look to make our annual book wish list. So, Brian, thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Well, I I tell you, I know you're not supposed to play favorites, but of all the interviews I do, this is my favorite interview of the year. So yeah, we'll take it.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

It's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah, I look, I love hanging out with you two guys. You're our dear friends. And um, yeah, to be able to invest in your audience and kind of get some good resources into their hands, it's it's an absolute joy.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Hey, Brian, before we get started on the book list, I wanted to share an excerpt from your recent blog post of yours concerning our individual book reading and our individual book collections. Thought this was appropriate for today. Uh on November 4th, 2023, you posted, and I'll quote uh you can respond to the quote later, but here's the quote: Speaking of books, some interesting stats have just been released per the November 1st edition of the Morning Brew Daily Newsletter and Ugov survey. Nine percent of Americans do not own a single book. That's right. No, not one. On the other hand, 3% of Americans own more than a thousand books. That's impressive. When it comes to personal libraries, nearly a third of Americans don't organize their bookshelves. You say you actually had lunch with one of those individuals the day before. You said 22% sort by genre, less than 10% sort by author. And you finish, uh, you say for the decorative individuals, less than 3% arranged by color. And for the record, you, I, uh Brian Dodd, my library, uh, you organize yours by genre and then sort by author. So that's the end of the quote there. So start us off before we talk about the first book. Just talk to us about what you gathered from that uh blog post.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Well, you know, the interesting thing is three what was the number again, Josh? You got to get it back to me. What? Three percent.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Three percent have a thousand books, nine percent have zero percent have none.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Yeah, it's alarming that one out of ten Americans do not own a single book. And if we operate under the premise that leaders are readers, uh yeah, I mean, right now we're already, you know, in a in a deficit mode just right out of the gate. But it is interesting, those people that get it, they really get it, you know, and they they load up. I don't have a thousand books, I've probably got two or three hundred. But uh yeah, I I mean it's just and there's that stat, I don't know the stat, but of how many college people that once they graduate never read a book again. And I think the reading is just so forced and so voluminous in college that uh I mean they just go completely the opposite direction. But yeah, I I would tell everybody this always be reading, if nowhere else, just start reading genres you enjoy. Right. I mean, that's why we start here with these sports books. I mean, sports books, if you want to look at it like this, they're fun, they're relatable, you know. We know the stories, and now we're just going deeper. But at the end of the day, sports books are history books, right? You know, the things we're gonna be talking about today, a lot of it's gonna be history, you know. This isn't, you know, Napoleon conquering territory, but it's a sports team conquering its division or its industry. And how did it do it? How did it do it with team building and hard decisions and sacrifice and all those type of things? So, yeah, for the people who do your podcast, I don't know if they're readers or not, but hopefully we're going to give them some books that uh that they will enjoy reading and head up to to that group that's uh that's got a thousand books in their library.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

You know, you bring you bring up a great point. This is something we've talked about on here before, this idea of whether you're talking to you, like for us, like our the target audience being high school athletic directors, but if you're talking to a collegiate athletic director and they're talking about programs that involve millions and tens and millions of dollars, it's very easy for that lower level leader to go, well, I I I'm not even gonna listen to that because I can't do that. Whereas that higher level leader can go, okay, I can take that and scale it to whatever to make it work with us. To your point, you're reading these books about these teams that are doing things, elements that you're gonna do every single day. So it's just learn how they did it and apply it to what you do. I think it's a great concept.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah, let me let me address that real fast and we'll get to the books because we can we can definitely let some leadership principles hijack the process here. But here's what I would tell anybody when you're studying other great leaders, regardless of the size of their organization, you don't necessarily want to study how an organization, you want to study how they think. How did they make decisions? What was the process that they went through? What's important to them? What did they eliminate from the process? If you understand how great leaders think, the scaling happens naturally. It's a byproduct of good thinking. So we're going to cover some great leaders today, and uh I'll try to head into that direction a little bit about how do great leaders think, because any person can replicate that.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Well, let's let's start off with a great leader, uh, you. Uh so we are really excited uh to promote another book of yours uh this year. I don't think that you were planning on writing a book a year moving forward, but if you choose to, uh we will always include it here. And I'll say to those listening or watching this, Brian's writing style is tailor-made for a book study. If you're looking for a good book to do that with, I think a lot of athletic directors, that's something they struggle with. Each chapter has study and discussion questions uh that take the work out of creating that material for the book study. And I know that everyone would appreciate that. So coming in at 262 pages, tell us about Mighty, seven skills you need to move from pandemic to progress.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Yeah, you know, we're talking about great leaders in history. And one of the great leaders in history is King David of Israel, Israel's greatest king ever. And you could certainly look at that from a biblical perspective, or you could just look at it from a sheer organizational and military perspective. And before David became king, uh, the king he was going to succeed, uh, his name was King Saul. Saul was not really big into succession planning. So his thought process was, I'm gonna kill the up-and-coming next person. So David was in the run on the run and he was in the wilderness. Well, while he was in the wilderness, he encountered all these other people that were in the wilderness, and out of them formed an incredible army. You know, these were people that were not anybody's top draft pick, they're not being offered NIL money, they're not being offered scholarships. They're they're on the run in the wilderness. But David formed them together and formed this incredible army, and a subgroup within that is a group called David's Mighty Men, 37 of them, elite warriors. He they turned into elite warriors. So as we're on the backside of the pandemic, as we're in a post-pandemic world, this group of 37 men ultimately became the nucleus of the greatest army in Israel's history, you know, under King David. So it's a study of seven skills you need to move from pandemic to progress. So obviously, we look at what made them so great in a little over 1000 BC. But when we look at those elements, once again, I mean, like the books we're going to talk about, the elements from a historical perspective are applicable today as we're coming out of a wilderness in a post-pandemic world. So it's a study of what they did, but then modern day examples of people who are doing those exact same things to be successful now. And obviously, as you said, I love sports, and sports is just measurable. And so I talk about a lot of great sports leaders, Rafael Nadal, Patrick Mahomes, Andy Reid, Steph Curry, Deion Sanders, you know, Nick Saban, Jordan Spieth, Kobe Bryant, others. So, yes, um, if and and for a study with your with your uh individual coaches and maybe your players and staff, yeah, you could break it up into a seven-week study or something like that and look at those each uh each of those individual skills. And first of all, I think it's a fun read. I I think it's great from an informative perspective, and it's entertaining because, yes, we will talk about a pre-BC leader, uh, you know, who is just incredible, but also you're going to talk about people you watch on TV every week.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, that's good. It's been um, you know, it's been on my desk. It's it's in my lineup coming up next. So I'm looking forward to it. I will have to say the funniest thing I've heard in a long time is that Saul, King Saul, was not into succession planning. That that if that was in our sermon, the whole congregation would laugh. So that's a great, that's a great quote there. So if you don't know what we're talking about, go read the story of Saul and David and you'll understand Saul was not into succession planning.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

My former pastor would call that statement a tragic understatement.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah, amen to that. All right, Brian, you know, if our annual list has shown us anything, it is that you are slowing trying to convert this baseball person and dying the American football guy into Premier League soccer fans. Uh, somehow we always get a soccer book on here. Each year you include at least one book detailing the leadership lessons learned from this great worldwide sport and league in Europe, and this year is no different. Landing at 285 pages, we always throw out the number of pages because that's always important to readers. Hey, where'd I want to start? I look at it when I go to Amazon. Um, I got a book the other day, actually from my pastor. It's 1017 pages. It is daunting.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

No, but you couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

We I hey I'm I'm challenged, so I may try to may try to do it. But uh, so this book we're talking about here, 284 pages. Tell us about Pep City, the making of a super team by Paul Ballas and Lou Martin.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Yeah, you know, so if you follow European soccer, Premier League soccer, uh Manchester City just won what's called the Treble. So they have a number of championships each year. The NBA is trying to model it this year. But uh Manchester City won all three. They won the FA Cup, the Premier League, and the Champions League. And they're led by one of my most favorite leaders in the world. His name is Pep Guardiola. And this is a book, and the reason I purchased the book, and I think it's great for everybody to read, is it's really a profile of you can make the argument, the greatest leader in sports today. You could make that argument. Um, I actually wrote a blog post on it called 35 Qualities of a Once in a Generation Leader. And so you could Google that, uh, Brian Dodd, Pep, Guardiola, 35 Qualities, and it'll come up. But I just want to give you a couple of things out of out of this book that if you read it, uh obviously I wrote 35 qualities. I'm not going to hit all 35. I'm going to hit a couple. Uh, number one, Pep is what's called a talent magnet. He is so focused, so energetic, such a great strategist, and such a recognizer and appreciator and a development of talent. It's almost like a Division I college football team that's on a great winning cycle, and then they turn around and get the number one to four recruiting class, and it's just a great cycle. Well, Manchester City's in that cycle. But yes, I think if you're sitting there and you're saying, okay, I want to build a great culture, I want to attract great talent, I want to be the type of leader that talent wants to play for, then yes, I think Pep City, the making of a super team, if you read that book through that lens, uh, you will get a lot out of that, a lot out of that book. And you know, the interesting thing about Pep is Pep, you can go on YouTube and hear Nick Saban deliver a great leadership communication message. You can look at a lot of leaders and go listen to them, and they're very compelling. Pep is not a compelling public speaker, but Pep's strengths are what he does in the locker room with great talent. And so, yes, you know, you're not gonna be able to YouTube a Pep Guardiola, you know, leadership lesson video and get a lot out of it, but read the book and it'll make you a better leader.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

You're you're slowly working on us, slowly working on us with that with Premier League soccer. We're gonna get there, I promise. Now, this next selection uh hits a little closer to home for me. Not only is it an American football book, but it's authored by, in my opinion, one of the great coaches of our generation, and that's Tom Coughlin. Uh, I may be the only Jacksonville Jaguars fan in the greater Atlanta area, uh, but being from South Georgia, we were super excited when Jacksonville secured an NFL team. It was much closer to us. Uh, and so we began pulling for them and enjoyed what Coach Coughlin was able to do down there. But uh this pulls the curtain back on another stop of his. So totaling at 288 pages. Tell us about a giant win inside the New York Giants historic upset of the New England Patriots and Super Bowl 42 by Tom Coughlin.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah, so obviously the the Giants Super Bowl is a very famous Super Bowl victory. They knocked off the undefeated Patriots and prevented them from going 19-0. And it's it's Coach Coughlin's story of that of that time together. So he'll break down stories of Eli Manning and Michael Strahan and the construction of that great defense and the strategies behind stopping Brady and Randy Moss and that team. Here's the thing I want you to get out of this book. Uh, I am I am not writing a book a year. You know, I got on a hot streak there and really considered it because I've got my next book half written, but I think I'm just gonna delay it a little bit. But it's it's gonna be called The Essence of Leadership: What Influence is Truly All About. And a portion of this book is gonna be featured in that book. What I love most about this book, and obviously, if you're a football fan, obviously, if you're a Giants fan, obviously, if you're interested in the Patriots, it's a great book. The book ends with the last chapter of what Tom Coughlin calls the greatest leadership of his life, and it's taking care of his wife with ALS. And he devotes an entire chapter to what his life is like taking care of her. And and he makes uh, like I said, he makes uh the statement, it's the greatest leadership he's ever done. And that really is what the essence of leadership is all about. Uh, yes, you can win as a coach, as an AD, you can win some games, you can have some championships. Obviously, you want to shoot for that, you want to maximize your potential, but ultimately your greatest leadership is always going to be at home. And and and Coughlin's book illustrates that. And what is so great about the book is you know, he spends all this time in the Super Bowl and then transitions and builds to this crescendo that's not lifting the Lombardi trophy, it's lifting his wife up every day, putting her in her wheelchair and positioning her so she can look at the ocean, and then he feeds her throughout the day. Wow. It's a it's it's a it's a wonderful book, and the ending of it is so wonderful that I'm gonna use as an example in my next book.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah, that's really cool. Wow, what a leadership lesson that is. We can stop there, probably. Uh, Brian, that last election right in Don's wheelhouse being about football. Uh, this one's more uh in my wheelhouse, uh, with the sport of baseball. I think that a common topic of discussion by athletic leaders or leaders in general is how to build a winning team. Um, that's that's always the mystery, right? How to find the formula that will bring together a group for a common goal and reach the highest potential. And you found a great example of this with our next selection. It's 288 pages. The title is The 1998 Yankees: The Inside Story of the Greatest Baseball Team Ever by Jack Curry. Tell us about that one.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Yeah, and if you haven't picked it up on yet, we're going alphabetical order by author. So that's kind of the order we're going in. Actually, my favorite book of the year is going to be the last one. So you'll definitely want to hang on for that. Uh, but yeah, there's been a lot of books written on the Yankees that won the four World Series in a row, and we've actually hit them in previous years. And this is another great book. If if I would want you to focus on one thing in this book, and obviously it covers all the players, obviously, it covers you know, Joe Torrey and his relationship with Brian Cashman and and you know the role Steinbrenner played, and you know, it covers all that, and it's it's excellent. Jack Curry does a fantastic job. The one thing that I love the most about this book is Derek Jeter's role as a captain. And when you read that book and you look at what a captain is, I would almost encourage every coach that if you're gonna name team captains, they need to read this book and then give a report on Derek Jeter. And the model of consistency, the model of professionalism, the demand for excellence. They had a pitcher by the name of David Wells on that team, for those Yankee fans who remember it. And to say David Wells was a live wire would once again be one of those tragic understatements. But how Derek Jeter kept him in line and is like, we don't do things like that here. This is how we operate. You know, this is what it means to be a Yankee, this is what it means to put on that jersey and that cap, and this is what it means to go out on that ball field, and this is what it means to deal with the media. Reading that through the lens of how locker room leadership is so important to organizational success. I I think it's a great profile of that portion of leadership, which every AD and every coach needs to know about.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

So good. Now, I I believe that there's no better formula for success than hard work. Okay, I get asked all the time, you know, how do I I had a kid that I that I coached years ago. He's graduated college now and he's he wants to be a collegiate AD. And he was like, What do I need to do to be a college AD? And I said, bro, you need to work hard in everything. You need to go to that college and say, who mops the floors? Give me a mop and let me just start doing it. Like it, that's all it is. And when talking about this next election, you say champions aren't born, they're built. And I couldn't agree more. This is a book that you gave me at an event that we were at here in the Atlanta area, and I'm looking forward to diving into it really soon. At a very manageable 210 pages, tell us about Stay Sane in an insane world, how to control the controllables and thrive by Greg Hardin.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Okay. So um, Greg Hardin, for those of you who may or may not know this, he is a high performance coach employed by the University of Michigan. So, what happens is he works with all the different aspects of the program. So, for instance, he's done individual coaching for Michael Phelps and swimming. He's done individual coaching for their gymnastics program, he's done individual coaching for three Heisman Trophy winners: Tom Brady, Desmond Howard, and Charles Woodson. So he is, and obviously uh the University of Michigan is an elite academic academy as well. So uh he he deals with high performance people. And you know, the interesting thing is the main thing you get out of this book is it's in the title, How Do You Control the Controllables and Thrive? So, for instance, Desmond Howard comes to him his freshman year at Michigan, and he's upset because he's not playing. And the coaches don't like me, and the coaches don't give me a chance. And you know, he's going through the litany of things that every coach and athletic director has ever heard. And rather than being consoling, he says, All you're doing is giving me excuses. You're not telling me what you're doing to make it change. Sounds good. You're not you're you're not telling me what you're doing to work hard. You're not telling me about your film study. You're not telling me about your extra reps. All you're telling me is what other people aren't doing. You need to control the controllables. And so this uh, you know, one of the things you'll get out of this book is how to deal with players who don't feel like they're getting their just due. And how Greg Sane deals with that. And it's it's it's just a great tool to equip coaches and ADs on how to handle, you know, overbearing parents, overbearing athletes, uh, people with uh, you know, unrealistic expectations. And you're right. The only thing you can control is how hard you work. And and I I cannot control, for instance, what your listeners think of this podcast. All I can do is control how hard I prepare to kind of you know talk about each book and how they can help people, you know, and then it's up to them to read it, you know, to purchase it and read it. So um, yeah, that's a great example. But yes, the main lesson for this is actually contained in the title: Control the Uncontrollables.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yeah, we're like halfway through. And I I this may be the best one of the four of these we've done because you're throwing out books and leadership lessons together. So uh folks need to start taking notes if they're not by now. So hey, Brian, records are meant to be broken, right? Uh, but not all of them last for 61 years. This next selection is again from the world of baseball. Um, Don's kind of set me up for all these baseball books, which is good. I like talking baseball. And it's it's a fairly long read now, 368 pages talking about Aaron Judge and the Yankees. The title is 62, Aaron Judge, the New York Yankees, and the Pursuit of Greatness by Brian Hawk. Tell us about that one.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Yeah, uh, well, first of all, I want to just point out how you just skipped the steroid era and do not even acknowledge that in the home run record, you know. So I I just happen to, I happen to, I just happened to pick that up. But okay, 62. Aaron Judge and the New York Yankees in the pursuit of greatness. Here's the reason the book is so long is he literally breaks down Judge's performance in each game. You know, like if you went three for five and what happened at each bat and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

So reminder, there's 162 games plus a playoffs, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Yeah, so I don't think they made it. So here's the thing there's a lot of blank spaces on these pages, and you can go through 388 pretty fast. But uh here's the one thing I want you that that I got out of this book the value of consistency. Um Aaron Judge's performance and Aaron Judge's personality never really changed through the entire year. You know, there was when Aaron Judge showed up at the ballpark, you could bank on what you were getting. You know, there was not gonna be any, you know, like we do the disc profile. Well, some people, you know, they map out at, you know, a DI. D is direct and I is, you know, inspirational. Okay. So who are you, who am I getting today? Am I getting the direct person who's just gonna let me have it, or am I getting the life of the party? So there's this kind of schizophrenia in that personality type. There was no there was no schizophrenia with Aaron Judge. His calmness, his coolness, both at the plate and in his personal life and at the microphone, was consistent for 162 games. I would read that book and I would share that book with people who have massive highs and massive lows and say, you need to read this book for the value of consistency and reliability and dependability and what people can count on. And when I when I think of the year that Aaron Judge had, I guess it's now two seasons ago, uh, I don't think of the 62 number. That is obviously a magnificent number. Uh, but what I think about is his consistency in every aspect of his life and professionalism for all 162 games.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Don, I think you're about to contrast that a little bit with the next one. Uh value of consistency, calmness, coolness. Uh, yeah, you're gonna uh contrast that a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Very, very good point. Now, Brian, anyone wanting to build a team wants to create a winning culture within that program or their business, but they don't always have the swag or the guts that the author of this next book does and did when he was in his prime with the Cowboys. Uh coming in at 288 pages, tell us about swagger, Super Bowls, brass balls, and footballs, a memoir by Jimmy Johnson.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Yeah, okay. So this is obviously who's now the Fox analyst and you know, coached at the University of Miami, and but is but is most well known for his time winning Super Bowls and his and his work with Jerry uh Jones with the Cowboys. Here's how you want to read this book. And this book you can read on multiple levels, okay. Number one, how to deal with high maintenance leaders. Now, Josh and Don, I think y'all two are probably middle-of-the-road guys, very calm, not egocentric, not over the top, but Jerry Jones was, okay, and still is. It is, yeah. Yeah. And so Jimmy Johnson talks a lot about how he dealt with him. And ultimately, he could only deal with him for a period of time before it fell apart. And so, number one, you can see the success of how he dealt with him early on, and you can see the failures of how that type of relationship will break down. So you get that. Obviously, Jimmy John uh Johnson is known for team building and how to identify talent. You get that out of this book, uh, how to develop culture, how to make hard decisions. Um, Jimmy Johnson does not get enough credit for this, but the grace in which he made hard decisions, he was the guy that ultimately had to tell Ed Tutal Jones, Randy White, Charlie Waters, some of these people it was time to retire.

unknown 28:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Um, later on, he had to tell Dan Marino it was time to retire. And so his ability to honor elite talent in their waning days is really kind of a hidden lesson in here that most leaders don't talk about. You know, I'm 57 years old, and God has blessed me to be very successful in my field of industry, but I'm 57, and in the next decade or so, hopefully I'll get to do it on my terms. But if not, some leader is gonna have to usher me out the door. That is a unique skill in and of itself to honor longtime talent. And I think that was kind of a big thing that I got out of that. And here's another thing, too. Jimmy Johnson knows how to enjoy success. His life right now, living in the Florida Keys and you know, owning a restaurant and fishing and being on the Fox pregame show. You know, for a lot of people on here, you've, you know, we talked about hard work earlier. Well, you've worked really hard. Well, there comes a time that you need to enjoy the labors of that hard work. That's another lesson on how to do that as you'll get out of this book. So great book, fun read. Um, you'll get leadership lessons in all different aspects of his life. And I I highly recommend Swagger.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Man, I wish I'd had this book before I got in this job. I've had to deal with that opportunity of helping leaders, you know, enjoy the end of their career. And that's not always a fun situation. So it's a good time to deal with it. Brian, our next uh selection comes from uh former NFL general manager and three-time Super Bowl winner, Michael Lombardi. I think we've talked about him before. Uh, Don thinks that every head coach should read his book, Gridiron Genius. And it sounds like this one will be a must-read as well. Tell us about football done right, setting the record straight on the coaches, players, and history of the NFL. This book is 304 pages.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Okay. So, first of all, I want to agree with Don. Um, Gridiron Genius for me is one of the five best leadership books I've read, regardless of genre. Agreed. And I cannot recommend enough that everybody read that book. I I'll hit it real fast if you haven't read it. Michael Lombardi, to my knowledge, is the only person that worked for Al Davis, Bill Walsh, and uh and Bill Belichick. And he worked with Nick Saban, okay, when they were on the staff together for the Cleveland Browns. And Gridiron Genius is the leadership lessons he learned from working from those legends. Uh, being candid, this book is not as good as Gridiron Genius, but that that that's a high bar to set. I mean, but this is this is a great book if you love the history of the NFL and you want to know where things really came from. Like you want to know where the vertical passing game came from. Well, it did not come, you know, from Bill Walsh or Don Coriel or even Sid Gilman in the 60s. I mean, so he gives you a great history lesson of the game, both on the uh media side, television, as well as strategy. And he also breaks down his 100 greatest players of all time. Uh, and then what's great about reading each of those is what made them so great. So, a couple of things that I got out of the book that I think would be interesting. Number one, where does innovation truly come from? That's how I would read this book. I would read this book about okay, here's players that have never done things that other players have done. Here's coaches that have never done things that other coaches have done, and here's some new things that have happened in media that have never happened before. Where does innovation truly come from? And I think the thing that you'll learn as you read it is innovation is birthed out of necessity. It ain't birthed out of, hey, let's get five young people together and get on a whiteboard and come up with something innovative. Okay. Um, that is something that happens in a lot of industries, mine included. But, you know, innovation generally comes from, oh my heavens, we're facing a problem we've never faced. Well, we got to figure this thing out. Yep. Okay. Uh, and uh the second thing is, and I think this is real important because you may be an AD in a rural area, you would be shocked at how many of the top 100 players in the history of professional football were lightly regarded coming out of high school and or college. And just because you're in a rural area or you don't have great resources at your school, or you don't have a great talent, you know, you know, pool pool of talent, or you may not have the best coaching staff, that candidly, those things might be some reasons, but they are not excuses why you can't be maximizing your potential at that individual location you're currently at. And um, I would, I would, I would definitely read that book from an innovation and a cultivation of talent perspective.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Now, Brian, I think each year we have had this conversation and we've included at least one book by John Maxwell. And this year is no different. Frankly, if we were making an annual list of leadership books and we didn't have one uh by him on it, it would make the whole thing null and void, in my opinion. Uh I think most leaders would agree that most outcomes, good or bad, hinge on communication, which is the focus of this one. And one of my favorite quotes from this book is peace is not absence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means. I think there is so much to learn just in that one quote. Uh, at 320 pages, tell us about the 16 undeniable laws of communication, apply them, and make the most of your message.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Okay. So uh longtime listeners may know that I worked for John for many years, still worked for a company he founded, and John's one of my all-time heroes. And it was an absolute privilege of my life to get to work for him. Um, he has a series of laws books: 21 irrefutable laws of leadership, 17 laws of teamwork, 15 laws of personal growth. And then this book came out this past year, The 16 Undeniable Laws of Communication. So it's the commute, it's the laws of communication. Here's why this book is important for coaches and ADs. And that, you know, there comes a time when you're in leadership, whether at a church, a school, an athletic program, a business, your homeowners association, you know, wherever, that you must stand up and proclaim this is where we are going, follow me. Every leader. So how you're able to communicate, leadership comes with a microphone. And you've got to know how to communicate. You've got to know how to inspire, you've got to know how to galvanize people and rally the troops and deal with conflict and you know, get your message out. Um, this book is a must-have in the area of communication, and absolute needs to be on every shelf for anyone who does anything publicly. I'll say this: one of the things that I get to do on a regular basis is get to speak to groups. I got to speak to Josh's athletic department a year ago. Had a great time, loved doing that. Uh, I did not know how bad I was until I read John's book. So I'm reading that book and I'm just going, oh my heavens, oh my heavens. But the book made me a lot better.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

And uh you just taught me how to buy in the book then, because if you're bad, I I'm off the charts awful. So I'm not sure the book's gonna do anything, but just cause me want to quit. So uh no, that's good. That's uh communication is uh what we must do, right? As leaders, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

So well, here's the deal if the bar you're comparing yourself to is John Maxwell, I think there's only a handful of people on the planet that that reach that bar. Yeah, good luck.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yeah, yeah, not in that category for sure. Yeah, all right. Um, Brian, the next book. Uh Don had great things to say about the next author's previous book, which was called Never Settle. I have not read it, but this guy is probably my favorite ESPN personality right now. I love his uh delivery, I love his uh reverence and just everything he does. I would imagine this book's gonna be a home run as well. I'm hoping it comes under the Christmas tree to my to my house for sure. Um hopefully my wife or my mom is listening. Somebody, um, if not, it may be one of those uh self-christmas presents that I'm buying. Um it's always fun to learn stories from behind the scenes, uh, behind the behind the scenes stories there. This sounds like this is one that will deliver that. And we saw the author, he actually gave you a shout-out on on the platform X recently, uh, which is kind of cool. Hopefully, you saw that. I imagine you uh you thought that was really cool. This book is 256 pages. It's by ESPN's Marty Smith. It's called Sideline CEO Leadership Principles from Championship Coaches.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Yeah. Uh obviously, sports fans are probably familiar with Marty Smith, you know, especially if you watch ESP and College Game Day or something like that. Um, and he, when you're in that industry, and what I love about what Marty did, when you're in that industry, you have access to greatness every day. Now, I'm sure if you're in that industry, it becomes swipe noise, you're around them every day. I have a saying, excellence becomes average when it's all you have, you know. Uh, and you know, Marty may fall into that.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

But Marty's tough life to live there. I mean, goodness. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

I know. So, Marty, what he did is he compiled all these leadership lessons from these great, great coaches he has had access to. And here, here's what I would tell you when you read the book. Um, so it's broken up into like uh individual segments of leadership, like communication, teamwork, conflict, you know, you know, recruiting, those type of things. So it's broken up into sections. And Marty will take about three to five pages and discuss his thoughts on that topic. And then it's just backfilled with quote after quote after quote after quote from leaders like Nick Sabin, Mac Brown, Kim Mulkey, Doc Rivers, John Calipari, Roy Williams, Tom Izzo, Patty Gasso, Dabo Sweeney. I mean, I could go on and on. Okay. Um, so theoretically, here's the thing: if you're buying this book and you're looking for like quotes to hang on a wall, this will be your Bible. Okay. I mean, it it is loaded with quotes from from coaches. Um if you're wanting to understand a particular topic of leadership, let's say culture, you can go to the chapter on culture and you can talk about what everybody thinks about the subject of culture. But for me, I I deal with quotes all the time. So the part I enjoyed most was Marty's three to five pages at the beginning of each chapter. That's what I enjoyed the most about the book. So depending on what angle you're coming from, you're going to enjoy the book from that angle. But but yes, you should definitely, every person on the listening to this podcast should have this book as a resource tool, if nothing else, for inspirational thoughts and quotes and perspectives on individual topics of leadership.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

Good deal. Now, Brian, the president or general manager of a professional sports team would be a dream for many people listening or watching today, but few would dream of being the only person to have been both the president and general manager of three professional organizations across multiple sports. Uh, there's got to be a ton uh to learn from Bob Wistett in his book Game Changer and Insider's Story of the Sonic's Resurgence, the Trailblazers Turnaround, and the deal that saved the Seahawks. Uh, this totals 272 pages. Tell us about the last book on our list today.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Okay, so every year I try to give the listeners an off-the-radar book or two. Okay. Uh, the first off-the-radar book was Pep City: The Making of a Super Team. That's an off-the-radar book. This book is an off-the-radar book, also. This is the best sports book I read all year. So if I said, look, you only your athletic budget only allows you $20 to purchase a book, okay? This would be the one. Okay. Um, here's what I love about this book. And Don, you're so correct. He was the president of the Supersonics and he built the Sean Kemp Gary Payton team. Then he was the president of the Portland Trailblazers. And if you remember that famous Kobe DeShack lob that gets shown all the time in the Western Conference Championship against the Blazers, well, he built that Blazers team. And then, because of his relationship with Paul Allen, who owned the Portland Trailblazers, uh, Paul put him over the Seattle Seahawks. So completely different industry, you know, pro football from pro basketball. There is so much in this book. Um there is everything from contract negotiations with players, and he walks through all these different contract negotiations he had to do. How to how to manufacture trades? So working with other leaders, what to look for in talent. How did he build these teams? What type of culture did he want to set? What type of athletes did he want? And then this is very important. What type of coach did he hire to make his culture a reality? Yeah. And then how did he interact with the coaches and the players post-hiring and post-trade? Um, so you you get all of that. And here's the thing, too. Um, I'll talk about the Seahawks real fast. Most people don't know they were literally days away from being relocated to the loss to Los Angeles. Days away. And what uh Bob Whitsit did is he negotiated and got Paul Allen to build the team or buy the team, then got the city of Seattle to deliver public funding to build their current stadium. Because Paul Allen was not gonna buy the team unless the city was willing to put up half the money. And of course, then you get into that whole issue of well, how do I get the city to put up half the money for at the time the third richest man in the world? Wow. And so he had to negotiate with politicians, with civic groups, with Paul Allen, with the person from the from Los Angeles who was trying to buy the team. He had to navigate all of that while at the same time building the Portland Trailblazers. Yeah. Oh, by the way, yeah. And he del he delivered all of this with such excellence that, as he put in the book, very few people reported directly to Paul Allen. I was one of them. And Paul Allen and him became deep friends. So here's the thing: how do you gain the respect of a leader like Paul Allen, the third richest man in the world at the time? How do you add value to that type of leader? How do you earn the respect of that type of leader? How do you, when we say Bob Whitsit was a multitasker, uh, once again, third time, tragic understatement. Right. It it is, it's off the radar, it's only available in paperback. Uh for me, from a leadership perspective, it's my favorite sports book of the year.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

Wow, that's a that's a good way to land a plane there. Brian Dyne, we don't care what anyone else says about you. You're a good man, and we appreciate that you never tell us no uh when we ask for some help. So thanks again for the time today.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Oh, it's a pleasure. Always love investing in your audience. If I can ever serve anyone listening or the two of you, uh, the answer is yes. I mean, it doesn't matter what it is. You two guys are the best, and thank you for the value that you add to so many people.