SPEAKER_00 0:04

You're listening to the Hanging with the AD podcast, where we break down hot topics in athletic administration and lessons learned through leadership. Now, here are your hosts, Josh Matthews and Don Baker.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Today we wrap up our coaches series with a conversation with one of the most successful high school baseball coaches, not only in the state of Georgia but in the nation. Coach Mickey McMurtry, retired head baseball coach at Lassiter High School in Marietta, Georgia. Coach McMurtry helped establish Lassiter as a state power during his tenure and retired after the 2009 season with a total of 445 wins over 17 total seasons. He was inducted into the Georgia Duggout Club Hall of Fame in 2008 and led the schools to two state titles in 1999 and 2006, with the 99 team being named national champions. It won't take long for you to get an understanding of Coach Mick's mantra of it isn't about me, it's about us, and how it helps shape his life as a successful teacher and coach whose influence is still helping those he has taught and coached along the way as they take on the world. Let's settle in and get to know Coach Mickey McMurtry.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Coach McMurtry, we're so glad to have you joining Don and I for this episode of Hanging with the AD. Today we're joined by one of the most successful leaders to have coached in the state of Georgia. For our baseball listeners, you may know the name Mickey McMurtry, or you may know of the success that Lastor Baseball had in the 1990s and early 2000s. Today you get to hear from the architect of that success. Coach Mick, thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Glad to be here. Kind words. I appreciate that, Josh. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

So for our listeners, Coach Mickey McMurtry is a retired baseball coach from Lastor High School in Marietta, Georgia. In his retirement, he still spends his days working in the baseball industry, and we'll talk a little bit more about that later on. Coach Mick won over 400 games, two state championships, and his Lester team won the 1999 national championship. In his 18 seasons as a head baseball coach at Laster, his teams won seven region titles and played in the state championship series seven times. But I know Coach Mick doesn't really want to talk about things that he did on the field. So let's stop right there. We'll talk a little bit more about leadership in a minute. And let's let Coach Mick tell us more about his journey in athletics. So, Coach, we like to start the show with what we call the back of the baseball card bio. So take a minute, tell us what would be on the back of Coach Mickey McMurtry's baseball card.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

God, that's a tough question. I I, you know, I guess you'd start where I grew up. I grew up in Mississippi and Clinton, right outside of Jackson. And I um I had a great high school football coach my senior year that kind of was an inspiration to me and still is is an inspiration. He he's one of the few guys that I would call a great man. And uh and just kind of uh, you know, me and my brothers, my dad, we were all kind of ballpark rats and enjoyed playing sports. And, you know, the three biggies back when I was growing up were of course baseball, football, and basketball. And uh, but I I I went to I coached it, I played football at and baseball at Mississippi College in my hometown of Clinton, and then uh I student taught Clinton High School, where I went to school and worked with Coach Sloan, and then Coach Sloan gave me my first job back in uh 1978, and it was there a couple of years, and then uh, you know, I was at a couple other schools in Mississippi coaching mostly. I was a football coach for the most part, even though um, you know, baseball was always kind of my first love. It was uh, you know, I think it was my best sport as a player, and you know, we always kind of kept up with it, and I coached baseball a little bit too in those schools, but uh but I got a chance in 1984 to go to Auburn. Thought I wanted to be a college football coach. You know, I thought I was big-time high school football coach, and uh I got the opportunity in 1984 to go and work as a GA with uh Coach Dye at Auburn and uh great experience, uh, and it got me moving east, and that's how I kind of landed in Atlanta, but uh, you know, it got the coaching football a bug out of me in my system. That was like 24 hours a day, and uh, you know, I wasn't quite that enthusiastic about you know coaching 24 hours a day, but it was uh it was a great experience. Coach Dye was a you know another great man and uh you know was a a pleasure to work for in a different kind of way. He was he was he was tough, but but it was it was good and turned me into a lifelong Auburn person. And uh, but then I I got to Atlanta and took a job at Lester in 1985. I was at la I was at Auburn for two years, I got my master's, and uh man Laster was four years old when I got there, and I was there 26 years. It was just my you know, it was a home. And uh, you know, felt like a like a schools that I've been in in Mississippi, even though it certainly was larger and in a metropolitan area, but it was still had that small town Mississippi feel to it. And I work with great people there, both academically and athletically. And you know, in 2011 I was still there when I retired, and you know, and I'm proud of that. I I I'm I'm not sure that enough guys these days, you know, put their roots down in one place. It's like they're always kind of looking for that next job. And I I get that, and when you're younger, and I you know was in three or four different schools, but man, when I found my school and you knew it, you know, you just you just felt it that that this is a great place to be, and we had great kids, and athletics were good, and academics teaching was a pleasure. You know, when I was at Auburn when I was doing the foot doing the the the big time football stuff, I missed I missed the classroom a lot. And I I hope we talk about this a little bit, that for me, I was a teacher that just happened to coach a little bit. Also, you know, the teaching was important to me, and I I grew a ton as a teacher just with my colleagues at Lassiter, and and it it it was a I mean it was a uh just a full uh uh experience of teaching and coaching, but it it it was you know, as I said, 26 years is a long I I was in the same room at Lassiter for 20 years. Wow, yeah. I became division head and and I you know feel real proud of some things we did.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

If that was a Baptist church, they'd put your name on the room, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Well, I you know, I I'm I'm not I'm not real big at putting my name on the room. I know I don't you know, pardon you know Josh, I am. I'm I'm it ain't about me. That's right. It was about Lassiter High School and the kids and the parents, and and you know, I I tried to you know I tried to leave a little better than than it was when I got there. And I that's a you know, coachism from you know the beginning of coaching is that you know you leave something better than you found it. And and but Lassiter High School was a wonderful place to be, and it'll be in my heart forever. And you know, as I said, I'm I'm proud of being somewhere and building something. And then you know, the what I'm proud of as a coach there, man, we we did it, we did it year after year after year after year. You you didn't go somewhere else. You know, we we built a program. I I don't say we we built it, it was certainly a great program when I started and became the head coach, but we dug in and had some roots and you know, and I'm I'm I'm proud, I'm proud of, I'm proud of Last of the Right School, and I'm proud of being a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

That's good, yes, sir. Well, we'll talk a lot about uh uh talk about a lot of those things you mentioned, but I want to start with something you told me not not too long after I got the last and was able to coach with you. It was on the way home from our first ABCA together, and you mentioned, hey, rule number one in coaching is, and when you told me I about fell out of the truck because it was countercultural to what coaching is, right? So uh talk about what rule number one in coaching is or was to you. Describe how that was developed in in your mind and your heart, and then for the for our audience of athletic directors who may not coach anymore, and or even the ones who do coach, what would be your advice to any leader in developing a rule number one in leading, or maybe a set of rules to lead by?

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Well, the the the story you're frontiered. I didn't I remember they were coming back Navy CA and National, you kind of looked at me like I was crazy. Yeah, I thought you were. And I mean, I it was awesome, Jocelyn. Me and you got to spend three or four hours together just talking shop, you know, and feeling each other out, even though I knew you and I knew you were a good young coach, and we certainly were proud to have you on our program because we had worked against you in some of the places you'd been that we played. You know, we were just sitting there talking, and my and and I I'll say this was this was rule number one in our program.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

At least for me. And that was I did we were sitting there talking, and the deal was you know, rule number one is resist the urge to coach. And and I remember you looked at me like I was kind of crazy, and we probably spent an hour talking through that about how crazy it sounds. But you know, part of the thing for me in the area where we were in Lassiter was that the some of the summer programs are certainly very strong, and they all do a great job with what they do in the summer. But you know, as you look around, there it's it's like some of these guys coach per word or coach per tip or coach per lesson, or you know, and it's like sometimes, you know, let the kids play. And the deal was it's just a lot to me, a lot of the coaching gets to be about, and I and I, you know, I was guilty. I think back of uh when I first got to Lasseter, I was coaching the defensive secondary, and we we were playing over at Walton, and Walton was always good. I mean, all always really, really good. And I was coaching the DBs, and here I was, I was about 25, 26 years old. And uh, you know, we were playing over there and we were just getting just smoked. I mean, just burnt with several long passes in a row. And I was working up in the press box, and and you know, we got hit with about three long touchdown passes in a row. And I mean, I I can remember I was not happy because it was reflective of the coaching job, obviously, that I wasn't doing very well. And I kind of pitched a fit up there in the press box and snorted and you know, and banged a chair up against the wall and then left the press box and made a big scene of going down on the sideline and sitting my DBs on the bench, you know, and basically getting a finger in their face and you know, yak, yak, yak, you know. But it but it was just an act, I mean, it was just all of a theatrics. You know, I that was pretty. I'm still to this day, what 30 plus years later, I'm embarrassed about that. You know, it's that how I acted and embarrassed and humiliated some of the kids, you know, that I was coaching, but it was all about letting all the fandom and everybody know how unhappy I was and what a great coach I am. And you know, this is about these guys not doing the stuff that, you know, I, of course, being the great coach I am, taught them to do. So, you know, that that that kind of stuff played a big role in my thing, resist the urge to coach. And, you know, the thing to to follow that up, you know, coaches coach at practice. Games are for players, games are not for coaches. You know, you make your adjustments and you do things, but it's like you know, you do it quietly. You know, I I always thought we had great practices, and you know, practices were playing well and they were efficient and well organized, and you know, our kids worked hard and I think got better at the fundamentals. But, you know, we coached and practice, and when it was time to play games, don't notch kids up, you know, let them play. Have confidence that that your preparation is gonna take you into that game and your kids are gonna perform, you know, well by what you did the two or three days prior to that. And so that resist the urge to coach, you know, coach at practice, and and as a coach, you've got to have a certain level of humility. You know, ain't nobody watching you at practice. You know, it's like you're doing that, you know, in silence and in you know, anonymity, and and you know, we all want to take credit, I think, for our our team's success, but you you do it at practice and you take a pride in that. And you know, at the end of the day, if the fans know what you're doing or not, that's let you know, let the players take the credit during the games.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

You know, coach, you talk about having a standard and doing things a certain way. You know, I understand that you had standards like cut your hair, black shoes, clean shaven, go to school every day, uh every class, you check the attendance report and other things. And what was the driving factor behind having strict standards for the players? Obviously, you know, when they're under your leadership, the players may not have liked some of these, but what was the big picture purpose there?

SPEAKER_02 14:56

You know, you know, for me, it was just the discipline of it. It's the regimentation. And, you know, we talked about every year a big thing for us was it's about the team. You know, our kids are gonna, we're not we're not gonna have half our guys with their pants rolled up and their socks showing, and the other half with their pants down, and you know, guys, some guys wearing sunglasses on their hats, and some guys not, you know, it's a uniform. That that word means something. By name, yeah. And so, and and to me, it was subjugating yourself to the team. You know, you're you're this is bigger than you, dude. You know, this is about our team, it's about our program, it's about you know, something bigger than you. And I mean, we talked about every year, and once again, the the the summer guys do something, and I'm not being critical of what they do is just different from what we did with a high school. We played 25 games, they play 125 games. You know, what they do is very, very different, but we talked every year. We had to exercise, you know, exorcise. You know, we had to get the the selfishness and keeping up with your batting average. And, you know, I I I resisted every year sending in stats to the paper. You know, because our guys, our guys, when we play Parkview and Columbus and you know, the the better teams, we're gonna strike out a lot. And I mean, our guys are gonna be hitting 250 after the first 10 games because we that 250 meant something because we're playing against really good competition. And I my thing is if it's not in the paper, it it just you know, it's not so so well known, but but it was about being a part of a team, it's about being uniform, having discipline. There's a set set of expectations. And I'm another element for me on it is being a baseball player at Lasseter is not easy. You know, there's a there's an expectation here. You're gonna act right. I'm not gonna say our guys got it right every day because you know, 16-year-old kids, you know, they're gonna get outside of what you expect for them to do, but we're gonna talk about acting right. We're gonna talk about respecting umpires, we're gonna talk about and we're gonna demand that. You know, if you're gonna show your butt about striking out or a bad call. What's what's John Wooden, you know, the coach has the has the most uh uh effective uh motivator of them all, if he's willing to use it, the bench. You know, it's about playing time and and if kids are not gonna go to class, you know. My thing with with cloak uh uh with class was, you know, I'm a teacher and our teachers expected our athletes, our baseball players anyway, to act right when they're in class. And I'm gonna help them with that. And that means if if a kid's gonna be concerned about missing a game because he acted like an idiot up in Miss Miss Algebra class, I'm gonna help them with that because this is a school, school baseball. But but you know, it just gets back to to being a part of a team and having a certain sense of expectations and subjugating your ego and your desires and your selfishness to the team. You know, another thing we we did, and I remember my AD at the time when we wanted to build, and and I mean, I know Josh, you've seen a coach there, but Don, you you you you've seen our big scoreboard with the championships on it and the big Trojan hitter, and you know, my thing for that was when we started doing that, it was about doing a billboard, and we won the national championship, but it wasn't just that 99 team. I wanted them to always remember this is about the guys that came before you. Right. You know, you're standing on some huge shoulders. You know, this ain't about you. This isn't about that team. This is about standing on the shoulders of because when I think about the 90, I remember the Scott Prathers and the other kids that played on teams prior to that and how hard they worked and how they built the foundation for our program where a 99 team could could you know stand on shoulders and and you know, and do what they did, and then team after team after team after team did that. But that that big giant scoreboard was about it's it's about all of us. Right. You know, there were guys playing here before you got here, and they're gonna be guys that are gonna excel after you leave. This is bigger than you, it's bigger than me. About me, it's about us, it's about the team. To me, that's it, man. That's Lassiter baseball to me. And it's about our program, it's about 20 years worth of kids, man. And I tear up thinking about how these guys worked so hard every day and did what we expected them to. And part of the respect I have for them is you know, is that uniformity and the expectations and the discipline, the things they had to put in their pocket every day when they stepped on that field. I respect that because being a last year player, it wasn't the easiest thing in the world because you had to go to class. You had an expectation. To me, when guys got finished playing in our program, they were proud of what they had done.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

And that that means a lot to me. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Coach, I want to go back to you just talked about those things you had to do as a leader or things you required of them as a leader, and how being in that program was hard, but at the end they respected it. But from the leadership side of it, uh, I think this is something that's uniform, and we're we as athletic directors are experiencing right now, and that is the exhaustion that comes with sticking to your values and expectations as a leader. Uh, I know one thing I've talked to almost almost every athletic director I've talked to during this return to play time with COVID, with all these protocols that we're having to do, is the frustration at some point in time with getting fans and coaches and players to stick with these protocols that are in place to get us back playing games. How would you advise a leader to maintain their level of expectation or maybe their Stick to it-ness. I know you mentioned that every year you had to exercise and you had to uh you know stick to and and represent and re-coach some of those lessons that you wanted kids to know. You know, if I if I were to say to you, coach, I'm tired of constantly sounding like the bad guy when it comes to upholding expectations and rules, what would you say to me?

SPEAKER_02 22:24

All of us experience that. I mean, it we all wish the job was a little bit easier. We all wish that everybody subscribed to all of our belief system and values. And to me, at the end of the day, it how do you sleep at night? You know, and it's like doing the right things as you see it and what you know to be true and right, and what's gonna help your team and your program, and whether you guys are coaching coaches or whether a coach is coaching players, if you really believe in these things, you know that that's the right way. It's gonna help them succeed in the end. You know, you if you believe that, then you need to educate them in that they believe that. And as I said, we all that and and I, you know, I I think today your job is more difficult than it was in my coaching prime because I think kids are a little different today. I think you know, they have different values, and I think you have to bend to that a little bit. You know, it's like when I got about the time I got done, you know, coaches became tech coaches, you know, they have all their kids' numbers, and that was just a foreign experience to me. And, you know, I I just never was that close where I had a kid's phone number in my pocket. But now that I've got my business and I'm communicating with you guys in the building with text, I hey, I get that, man. You know, now 10 years later, how did I ever do without text? You know, because it's such a valuable tool. And so that's where I think there's some things for old grizzled, hard-nosed, black and white, disciplined old school guys like me. I I think there's some things that those coaches can learn and can can subscribe to now that's that, you know, is a for lack of a better word, a little softer. You know, I think you've got to you've got to change and you've got to coach these kids a little bit where they're at. So it's it's almost like a combination. You know, you give them your your best old school stuff, but you take some of their, you know, some of their values too, and and you know, to me, if I were coaching today, I I would know what I know now, I would hope to make some uh you know adjustments. But Josh, I think the thing there, once again, it's like you and I have talked a million times about, you know, be careful, you guys as ADs, you know, it's gonna come down on your head about COVID. You have to educate a young 24-year-old coach. He he doesn't see that something bad can happen to a kid. You know, then we've taught more and more COVID wasn't on our discussion, but physicals. Right. You know, when a kid, you know, something bad happens to a kid that doesn't have a physical, you know, in the summertime and it's heat exhaustion or a heart valve or whatever, that that coach is going to jail if he doesn't do those physicals. And and they don't think about that. They don't think about everything that could happen. And and nobody thinks about everything, but it's to me, it's your job as the AD. And I know you guys do it, but you just gotta keep doing it. You know, a coach can't afford not to make a kid turn in a f and if he's got to sit out, Josh, you remember that first baseball tryouts, we'd have 10 kids sitting in the bleachers, didn't have a physical, and they'd be once, well, my mom didn't, well, okay, okay. Yeah, but I can't let you the rules say I can't let you step on the field. You know, and then I'd get calls the next day at school, you know, from a parent asking me why I didn't let the kid try out yesterday. Well, you know, it's just well, because that's the rule. You know, if you're supposed to have a physical, we've been telling you guys for months, and I make Josh, you remember those kids, it'd be 3.30 and they'd come back at 4:30 having run up to the dock in the box with a and get a get a damn physical. You know, it's amazing how it motivated them. Once again, the bench. If they thought it was gonna cost them playing time or an opportunity to make the team, they got that physical done. I'm that I can't tell you the number of kids in the years that we did it. They would leave because instead of sitting there in the bleachers, they'd call their mom, their mom would pick them up, and with an hour they were back with a physical. Okay, jump on in there. Well, let's take a few swings now.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

So, so to me, it's just the sticking with, and there's some things, man, you can't, you can't afford not to do. You can't. Physicals are one of those. COVID's one of those to me. You know, and if a coach doesn't do what he's supposed to do, you guys, you guys have to take you to take them off the field.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Because you're, you know, you're that's your responsibility. You know, coach, speaking of staffs, timing as historians, comedians, and pitching coaches like to say is everything. Uh for the coaches listening and for the athletic administrators who are evaluating the chemistry within their individual sports programs. Can you talk about the importance of the coaching staff meeting before and after practice and games? What did the timing of those meetings do for you as the leader? And what did that time together after practice or games do for your staff?

SPEAKER_02 28:10

You know, you know, to me and Josh then would always ask me, we'd come in, we'd spend Josh, what, even tryouts?

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah, I mean, we were up there for the house.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

You know, Josh, Josh coached the outfielders. I didn't. I mean, I I was I was the worst coach on the field on our staff. These guys had played some serious baseball, and they had had technicians teach them the technical skills of the game. I didn't know a lot of that stuff. I'd like to say I was a good manager. I put everything together pretty well and did practice schedules and you know dealt with some of the but the the coaches did the coaching, and to me, we're sitting up there after a after a tryout session, and we've run a hundred kids through tryouts, and we're eventually gonna have to cut down to keeping 40 kids in our program. There had to be some some decisions made in it. It didn't necessarily have to be uh formally documented, but there needed to be a sense of logic. And we'd come in and that after, I mean, it was almost every practice. We'd come in and talk about, well, what'd you see, Josh? I'd say, Josh, put your put your one through ten, put your one to ten, who your best ten outfielders in order. You know, or Scott Kelly, Scott, put your first, put your one through ten on your infielders or your shortstop, one through five. And and then they'd start talking about it, and I'd say, well, why do you say that? Well, I wanted them to think through the logic because at the end of the day, when I have to sit down with a parent and explain why their kid didn't make our team, I needed some some you know, some qualitative information about why they didn't make the team. And these guys were doing the coaching. You know, I wasn't doing the coaching, they were. And that gets me to another point about a head coach, and it gets back to one of the first jobs I had coaching football over in Mississippi. You know, my best buddy was the head coach, and he, you know, and I mean we were great friends and had gone to high school together, and he he was he did everything. You know, he he wouldn't let his coaches coach. And that's a big thing for me. If you want to keep quality coaches on your staff, you better let them coach. And that means every coach wants to have a sense at the game, that they had a hand in whether you won or you lost. You know, that something they did uh uh had an impact on how that game went. And it meant that they were bought into it because they were doing the coaching. I think Josh will tell you we have these men, I would just kind of sit back in the corner and let them talk and I would ask questions. But they saw the drills, they saw the performance, I saw what I saw, but I saw things in the big picture, and we all talked about how we were gonna put our team together, but but it's like I think they would tell you that that made them feel like they were coaching, like they were, you know, they were making decisions that impacted. And then it wasn't about when we posted the try the the the team list, it wasn't my list. It was our list. Right. They put our team together, we put our team together. And I, Josh, I mean tell me if I'm saying something untrue.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

No, that's that's exactly what went. I mean, we uh the those days and I were sitting up there after practice and and even after games evaluating, uh, you know, I think for me and what we do now as an athletic administrator, it helped two things. It helped understand the rigor of the job. You got to put in hours to be able to, number two, evaluate and get a true representation of what's going on. I mean, if we if we just spent five minutes and made those lists and not ask and not talked about why, and we'll get into that question in a few minutes, but uh you know, we would not have had, I don't think you would your your programs or we would have had that success for for the the number of years you were there. Coach, talking about coaches and um kind of people that made an impact on you, you mentioned earlier in your bio about working for uh working at Auburn for Coach Dye. Uh, most people probably didn't know you were a football guy because a lot of your success is tied to those baseball years, but you did work for Coach Dye there. I heard another interview by Hal Baird, who's the former baseball coach at Auburn, who worked with Coach Dye down there, and he said Coach Pat Dye taught him how to treat people as a head coach. Can you talk a little bit about Coach Dye's leadership and what you took from the experience working under him?

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Coach Dye was, you know, I'm gonna say it was a pleasure, but he was hard to work for. And here's the reason, and here's my thing about Coach Dye. Coach Dye, he was tough, man. I mean, you're talking about old school discipline, cut to it. Coach Dye was a hard guy. I mean, he and he worked, God, he worked. And the thing I learned from him, he didn't expect anything of you that he didn't do himself. He was the first guy there in the morning, and he was the last guy to leave. There'd be nights I'd be sitting up there, and I it was the first time I really had left home from uh Mississippi, and I would be sitting in there over in the office, you know, and at that time we had the old Watts line. I don't know if you guys are probably probably not old enough to remember the Watts line. Don, you're sitting there laughing. No, sir, no, sir. No, sir. I got nothing. The Watts line was like you paid, you could talk long distance and you know, you paid a fee, you know, you paid a fee and you could talk, whereas long distance, you used to total up minutes, man, if you're talking long distance, and it was expensive. Well, of course, the the the school, the the athletic department, the football department had what's so I'd be calling home talking to my family or whatever over after everybody's left. And man, you wouldn't believe the number of times that Coach Dye, I'd be in there in one of the coaches' offices talking to my family, and Coach Dy'd stick his head in the damn door. And you just go, man, he's over there. He's like I said, he's the last guy to leave. And and he was tough and hard and expected a lot of you, but man, he he like I said, he didn't expect anything of you that he didn't expect of himself. And to me, that was about leadership. He was tougher on himself than he was anybody else. But but he demanded a lot of people and and expected a lot and got a lot out of people. And it did those players over there, they they they'd kill for Coach Dodd. They'd run through the wall for it because he treated them, you know, he treated them well, worked them like dogs, man. It was hard to stand there in an Auburn practice for the four or so hours we it you got physically tired just being on your feet for that long. I can't even imagine what these guys were doing that were actually physically playing football. It it was, and of course, as a GA, I ran the scout offense when we started um when we did our fall program. And you know, I just like high school coaches everywhere, I did the little, you know, the little idiot cards and held them up. And yeah, you know, because as it all washed out, I was kind of a high school coach. I I wasn't, I didn't have the knowledge to be, but and that was a high school sort of thing, is to run the other team's plays. But, you know, on a lot of days I didn't do a whole lot of practice, and just like I said, just physically going through a practice was was demanding.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Now, coach, we talk to a lot of our guests about mentors. Josh has described you as one of his mentors throughout his career, as well as the first guest that we interviewed on this podcast, Scott Kelly, uh, over at Lassiter. Scott spoke very highly of the things that he learned through playing for and coaching with you at Lassiter. When did you see yourself as being in a position to influence a younger generation of potential leaders? And for the veteran leader, whether it be a veteran AD or veteran coach listening, what level of responsibility do you believe that he or she has in consciously mentoring younger coaches?

SPEAKER_02 37:00

You know, I don't, can you know, Don, it's a good, that's a good question. I I don't know if I ever consciously, and I'm sure there were times when I consciously thought about the the impact and what you were given back, but I think that older coaches, that's part of their mission. That's part of their their I know Josh is has a religious element to what it's it's he he feels like his athletic director and his teaching is a ministry. And to some degree, that that's part of what older experienced coaches with young coaches, you know, under their watch. That to me it's part of giving back. And my thing was just as much as anything is to make coaches feel like they were coaching and that they were having an impact, and that I just think there's a residual effect to your values and your work ethic. And you know, and part of my belief is that people they see what you're doing, you know, that as much as I I'm not real big on tooting my own horn or banging my drum, you know, because I I honestly, and I say this as honestly as I can, I've I I never ever felt like it was about me. Never. I I just it was always about us. We work together, you know. I've told bosses before, I I don't really work for you. We work together. You know, it it's and I've had no problems with recognizing someone as my boss. It's not that at all. But the best bosses weren't telling you they were the boss. I didn't need Coach Sloan over at Clinton High School to tell me he was the boss. I didn't need anybody tell me Pat Dye was the boss. Right. He was he was the boss, period.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Coach, speaking of that, uh you kind of led into the next question really good because we're gonna talk about these great people you work for and not necessarily their name. You uh Coach Dye, Coach Sloan. Uh I know a couple of your leaders at Lester, uh, the principals became superintendents. So they were obviously great leaders there. What characteristics, uh you mentioned 27 years, 26 years at Laster, uh, and other years in high school, what characteristics make a good, successful high school athletic leader, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

To me, I think the number one thing is humility. I think that it's I think that that's huge. And once again, it gets back to my bullet. This ain't about me. It's not about me. It's about us, it's about the game and respect for the game. And I think you guys as athletic directors have to, you're coaching coaches, you know, coach, coach die coach coaches. You know, every day we'd have meetings, and and to me it's about motivating, it's about humility and inspiration. You know, I always love working for guys that inspired me. You know, I always felt I was smart enough, that I had a work ethic. I just needed motivation, man. I needed, I needed some inspiration. And I loved working for a couple of the principals, James Wilson and Fred Sanderson. They were awesome because they they inspired you. And part of that was that it it all gets, but there's a thread here, I think, in that you know, you feel like you're a part of a team. You know, you feel like you're a part of the same, that same organization moving forward. All of us are moving forward a step at a time, or we're or we're backing up a step at a time. And to be a good leader recognizes that it's not about him, it's about us. And it's about inspiring, it's about motivating those under their charge, under their watch, to be the best people that they can be and then get out of their way. Right. You know, once again, it's about us coaching at practice. You know, it's about a principal or an athletic director, you know, motivating his people in the building every day. You know, what are you doing to help these guys do their jobs better? At the end of the day, people want to be helped. You know, and and help them in the areas they need help, a lot of areas they don't need help in, but everybody needs help. They need resources, they need it's motivation, man. It's it's inspiration to me. And I, you know, and Josh, we talk about uh uh uh uh uh Jeremy, our pitching guy. Um what Jeremy, what's it? Jeremy Morse. Jeremy Morris. Jeremy, Jeremy's one of the smartest guys that I've ever known. You know, and he was talented. He's a big, strong, he was our pitching guy, Don, pitching coach. Jeremy, Jeremy signed with the uh with the Tampa Bay out of high school to pitch and tore his arm, went to Barry and played basketball, but he fell on our lap as a as a coach. And this guy, man, was smart, he was driven, he was strong, he physically, but he needed inspiring. I've seen Jeremy be a kind of a disruptive force, but then I've seen Jeremy go through a wall for somebody that's inspired him. I think Jeremy Morris would kill for me because he enjoyed working on, and I I say that in all humbleness.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

And that in that Jeremy had a place in our program. You know, Jeremy was a pigeon coach calling pitches. I didn't I didn't get involved in that. You go, well, you need to call not calling that's your job, dude. You know more about it than I do. And I think Jeremy, and in the classroom, I think there was a certain level of respect and motivation that Jeremy, God man, what a coach, what a what a teacher, what a what a what a good person. And I just think that some people he worked well and responded well to, and some he didn't, because it's the way he got treated and the way he was motivated. And it's you know, don't go into Jeremy Marsh's room and you're gonna do this, this, this, this, it. No, no, he's not. You know, he's got to be a part of the part of the you know, the the the plan. So so I to me, I hopefully that makes sense to y'all. It it but once again, it's that thread, it's about us, it's about the team. It's about the uniformity. It's about, you know, we're all moving in the same direction, and whether that's the building with a principal in charge or an athletic program with an AD in charge or coach of a program. It's about us.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Right. I think that's a great point. The people want to be helped. And we need to help them in areas they need help, not areas we want to help them in just because we think we need, we, we know what they need. We need to figure out what they need some way or another, survey or whatever it is, talking to them, figure out what they need and help them, whether it is convenient or hard for us to do. So I think that's a great point.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

And the hard thing for y'all is you have to listen.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

And sometimes it's not listening, it's it's observing. It's it's you know, and then in consultation and putting your heads together, it's like y'all agree on what needs needs, you know, he has and or she has and what what has to be done. But it's it's deeper than just talking, it's having a feel for your coaches. I think good ADs, you know, they they just know when to leave a guy alone and when to not. I mean, I didn't need a whole lot because I was motivated and you know, I'm I mean, I was gonna work. I was up there, and and but that didn't mean I didn't need some stuff because I did. You know, I needed the competence of the AD, the competence of the principal. And you know, a lot of it too is have a guy's back when he gets in trouble. You know, I mean, I've I've told uh a couple of principals at times, you know, at meetings was was, you know, you had a chance, and it was classroom stuff, but you know, you had a chance that this this the parent is is that they they saw a gap in there. They could tell by what you were saying that they you left open a gap and they put a wedge in there where all you had to do was come in and say, No, I know that Coach McMurtry would never do that. He would never say that to a kid in class, or he would never do that. I know him to be a good teacher, I know his reputation, I know his heart. He would never do that. Well, that that particular principal did not, they didn't do it. You know, and they basically created and and allowed a wedge to exist between me and the, you know, they drove a wedge between me and my leader, me and the person that should have had my back. If if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

And I mean, and if you can't stand up for a guy, I get that. I mean, there are plenty of instances where you guys can't stand up for a coach. They haven't done the right thing. And at and at that point, then, you know, if enough of that happens, you start looking for another coach.

unknown 46:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Hey, coach, let's change gears for just a minute. Let's talk about community members who are vital to a program. I know you had a couple of these guys that I think off uh think of right off the top of my head, you probably had more, but how would you advise coaches and even athletic directors in developing these types of relationships with people in the community that can possibly add value to their programs? And I think an important part of that piece is how are these folks vetted?

SPEAKER_02 47:25

That's a good question. I I don't, you know, we in our fundraising, and you know, everybody has to raise money, at least in our area. To me, it was just more of an instinctive either I trust people or I don't. I I think I've got pretty good radar on that. And I know that's not very instructive, you know, because I can't put that on paper. And so my thing was I didn't trust a lot of people outside our pro because I my I think my default was to not trust and feel like somebody had a had a selfish motive, and then you had to prove me wrong from there, if if that makes sense. And then we had plenty of, you know, and our parents there that to me, once again, for them, it was about educating people in our program, whether it be parents and the without our parents, we'd have a program. Our parents were awesome, almost to a man, because I think we did a pretty good job of defining what the expectations of them was all about. And that, you know, you're not gonna sit in a dugout. I mean, we're gonna we're gonna do the lineup. And you know, the parents used to say about me, I wasn't approachable. Well, good. I mean, I I I I I'm not, you know, the parents had their place, but it wasn't about the field. I hope I'm approachable in a booster club meeting, you know, but I'm not, I'll talk to you about raising money. I'm not, and I and I don't mind talking to you about your kid or the team or whatever, but at some point we're gonna agree to disagree on who's batting third and blade shortstop. Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

It may not be your kid. Now you said you talk about defining expectations. Uh, one thing that's very popular in life coaching right now is to know your why. This is something that you mentioned earlier. Simon Sinek has gained popularity in the world of leadership with multiple books, one being start with why. But you know, he first came to prominence in 2009 with a TED talk that went viral about this concept. You have always been someone that I understand who can drill down to the purpose very quickly. Really ask yourself and the people on your team that one short one-word question very often. Talk to us about how you and the organizations that you have led, whether that's a baseball team, a classroom, or a business, have benefited from the power of routinely asking why.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

You know, once again, I think that it's that it gets to that point that it's about your intellect, it's about you having a logic as to why we're doing this. I I want the why to me is injury. You know, to to not have a why to me means you hadn't thought through it very much. You know, and it's like once again, if we're gonna, if we're not gonna keep this kid on our team, we can't just tell this parent that your kid's cut.

SPEAKER_05 50:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

You know, and I mean I got in trouble over a Sunday, you know, over a Sunday. I sat up there probably for eight hours. I talked to every kid. Every at the time we had about a hundred kids trying out, and I talked to every kid. The kids we kept, the kids we cut, meaning we probably cut 60 and kept 40. And I and I mean it it was like getting run over by a truck. But we had a I had a why for every one of them and things that we wish that they would work on, and and you know, here's what you've got to do to be a to make our program. Here's what you've got to do to, you know, right now we envision you being a backup second baseman, and here's the things you need to work on between now and the first game. But those were the whys, and the and the coaches helped me with those. That was about our collective evaluation of, you know, I didn't just post the cut list on the wall, you know, or on the internet. So I I I tried to do the right thing by kids and give them the logic and and you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Hey, real quick, let's talk about uh being prepared. So you talked about Coach Dye worked 24 hours a day, or football was 24 hours a day. I remember working with you when school and teaching was probably about 19 or 20 hours of your day. I mean, it seemed like you stay up late into the evening finding stuff for government class or whatever. I heard Ernie Johnson Jr. talking on another podcast about getting prepared, preparing himself to have conversations with Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Shaq on the NBA on TNT show that they do. And he just talked about how much he has to prepare because those guys, they they just they're just kind of uh you know, do their own thing, but it's all on topic. Now, another story is before I got to Lassiter was what you and I were talking about, you getting prepared, or Lasseter getting prepared for a game coming up, and you we had beaten that team and you wanted some notes, and you said, Did y'all do anything fancy like hit into the sun? Because at their field, the sun sets behind the outfield, which is in the hitter's face. And I remember just how perplexed I was that you would think about moving the BP tunnel on another side of the field and hit into the sun, and just how uncommon that was. So, how can a leader improve his or her preparedness? Uh, you know, where what does it really take to be prepared? And like I said, I know for for you it was about preparing for government class, just like baseball practice. You'd stay up, watch the news, and come up with an activity for government class or a uh a diagram or a graph you wanted to show them, and you had printed it off at 2 a.m. or emailed it at 2 a.m. or whatever. Where did you learn how to be prepared at such an elite level and can can people improve that?

SPEAKER_02 53:38

I was always gonna try to find every edge, you know, every and some of the stuff was stupid, you know, some of it a lot of times, a lot of times that stuff about the sun behind the clouds and all that was uh, you know, just a gimmick to to let your kids think that, hey man, we're turning over every rock here. But the deal on the the thing about I always looked at it, says, why can't why do we always have we could hit man, but we'd have trouble hitting at Wheeler. We had trouble hitting at Edo. And and you know, and finally I'd at least the answer to me was their fields face the west. You know, it's totally different, it's totally backwards from our field, you know, meaning that you're hitting, you're you're looking into the sun and until it gets dark over there, and you're talking about half your game was gonna be played in in, you know, into the setting sun, and the and the ball's got a shadow on it. You know, we we didn't hit very well at spray bearing. It took me, we lost the state championship game over there, and I'm finally going, man, I can't see over. I'm afraid I'm gonna get, we're in the first base tug out. I said, I'm afraid I'm gonna get hit with a one of those blazing foul balls that a kid doesn't get around. But it's because those tree, their tree line created shadows on the field, and and until it got dark, you couldn't see. And Etowah was the same way, Wheeler was the same way. And so we started, we we were playing Etowah. We had to win at Etowah one year. We were had to win like our last three games. It was 06, and we got in the playoffs and ended up going to the semifinals. But we had to win the last like three games to get in the playoffs and uh to finish fourth. And we were facing a kid that signed with George up at Etowah. He was a lefty, and I can't remember his name, but he was good. And uh so we we took our we took our portable cage and put it out in the right field corner where we were hitting the same direction that we we'd we'd be hitting at Edoh. And I mean, we we took we we explained to our kids why we were doing it, and I mean it made it made like two days of practice before that game. It made it number one, it made it different. And number two, our kids had some confidence that we were doing something to get an edge over Edo, and they knew this kid pitching was good, and you know, we had to do something to give our kids more confidence. And it may have been just a gimmick. I don't think it was. It made sense to me, but we went up there and beat that kid from uh we beat that, we scored three or four runs on the kid in the first inning and ended up winning that game, and then ended up beating Chattauchi on Friday to get in the playoffs. But but to me, it's just like, and you know, Josh, in class, I'd I'd you know, my greatest fear as a teacher, and I think even to some degree as a coach, my greatest fear was a teacher that I didn't want that smartest kid in class, that AP kid, that kid going to Harvard or Yale or Stanford, and we had plenty of those kids at Lasseter. I didn't want that kid to leave my class and say this this class is a joke. You know, this cat, this class is not worth my time, it's not rigorous, it's not educational. And so that that motivated me to read and you know, to be, and I'm not gonna say I was smarter than those Harvard kind of kids in Stanford, because those I taught so many just innately brilliant kids, but I felt like I was at least five minutes ahead of them on the subject matter, you know, in that they could learn some things. And that's one reason, Josh, I think that I was sometimes a little trivial, you know, because I think that that brilliant kids sometimes there's a certain you you had to know a lot of things for them, you know, that you need to be taking them somewhere that um another teacher wasn't gonna take them. And I I just tried to fill my brain up with as much. When a kid asked me a question in class, I wanted to, I wanted to be able to answer the question or be able to say, hey, wait a minute, I know where I can get the answer to that. Or I took pride in the fact that a teacher down the hall teaching another subject. If impeachment came up in class, their class, if something was going on current events, if it was a government question, the teacher would come down and ask me because they knew that I had an idea what the answer was. And that made me feel good and made me feel like I was at least mastering my subject to a to a large degree. But the motivation for me was I didn't want my class to be a joke. I didn't want my class, I didn't want to be the coach sitting in there, you know, that couldn't wait till baseball practice started. I don't think a kid will ever say that about me, that that my government class was not a serious affair, that it was it it was just as serious as baseball practice was. Because I think there's a certain default for kids and their parents that that a coach is just in there, you know, putting his time in until he can get it, you know, until it turns 3 30. Right. And I I I just never was like that. I just I just I thought that you needed to teach class like you coached. And I tried every day. I mean, every day.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Now, coach, you are now getting into present day, you are selling dirt. You talked about creating your own, starting your own business, uh, Atlanta Athletic Field Supply. You do a lot of sales to high schools and colleges all over the state of Georgia and probably further on now. But uh you, as you say, you're selling dirt, you're selling turfus and stuff like that. But you're still in that world of baseball and high school athletics. Uh you're helping other people improve their facilities and present a level of excellence to their athletes and communities that maybe they haven't done in the in the past or whatever. But throughout all these travels, these 10 or 12 years, seeing all these other coaches do things, what have you cataloged that the best coaches and programs do that sets them apart?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

I think it's so much of what we've already talked about. Those coaches, they're they're I mean, they have they're they're comfortable with themselves. They they have an idea about what they want to do, and they do it, you know, they don't change a lot. You know, change their uniforms. You know, you look at college football, the the big boys, you know, Alabama's not gonna change their uniform every week. Right. You know, and not to say that an Oregon that does is wrong, but it's it's you know, it's like Alabama, it's hard to argue, man, what they're doing. And I think that to me, another thing we did about the the program, we always tried to schedule as tough as we could schedule. And when you talk about the better programs, the Parkviews and the Columbuses and the other people of the world, we all played each other. And and I think you you know, those guys can't be scared to you can't be scared to lose a game. And we always talked about, you know, we'll lose a game in March to win a game in May. Right. And and I think that was an essence of our program. We we, I mean, we don't we didn't ever want to lose a game, don't get me wrong, but if we came out of our non-regent schedule five and five, we knew it was a good five and five record. If we were two and eight, it was good. But our thing was we want to win in April and May. You know, we we're getting our team ready to go to lounge and win a best two out of three. Right. And so therefore, there were some things you had to do, and that meant you had to know the quality of lounge, which meant you better play. If you can't play lounge, you better play part view. You know, you better, and that's what I did every year. I tried to go when we were playing North Georgia, and it was it was uh, you know, five, six, seven, and eight. I'd want to play the best two teams in five, the best two teams in six, which six was our region, best two teams in six. So six games, I wanted the best two teams in five, seven, and eight. And that meant in eight, we were playing Brookwood and Parkview. You know, in five, we we were playing uh uh Harrison and uh Kennesaw Mountain. And and so that's what we tried to do to play the best schedule that we could. And knowing that when we played those people, you know, we were gonna see some of those lefties y'all had over at Kennesaw Mountain. Right. You know, every year it seemed like George had a couple of just nasty lefties. And it's like we we were we were gonna know what a good pitcher looked like. Right. And and to me, I didn't have to I didn't have to sell our kids on it. It's like, hey, you better get better. You know, in March, we better be better than this in May, or we're not gonna play very long. We better be better in April, or we're not gonna get out of our region because our kids do our region. And so I think that's one thing that they did. And I'm, you know, most of these guys at these better programs, I know them to be good and men, be disciplined, you know, that that believe in what they're doing, and they're knowledgeable coaches. And it's hard to find a coach that's not knowledgeable anymore. Right. You know, most guys have had had plenty of of uh exposure to clinics and you know, coaching manuals and what have you. There's no excuse to be an idiot coach. I mean, there's no excuse. You know, some guys are not very instinctive, but but there's no excuse for not knowing the game. And uh, and so, but at the same time, some of these guys are more instinctive and are good on the field. You know, they make good adjustments during the games, and you know, and and they they to me it's the the biggest thing is expectation. What's your program? And you know, Chan Brown over at Parkview, Chan, man, he he has a sense of expectations with it's about that on the shoulders of the guys before you. And I think I think we did that, you know, you know, we we probably at Lasseter during the during the good old days, we probably had a two-run advantage when the game started. You know, they come over to our field, and I think the facility was big. We played uh Columbus Shaw in here in the playoffs, and uh Charlie Flowers. Charlie's a great coach, great guy. And Charlie brought a good team in there. It was like round two of the playoffs. And Shaw comes in there and they they were good, man. I mean, they really had a good team. But they come in when they rounded the corner. I was probably down there putting the paint machine up or whatever, down at right field corner. And when these kids came in and they saw that look, got first sight of our field, and they're going, ooh, ooh, oh, this field looks like their field. You know, it's all I knew right then, man, that I I'm not gonna, I wasn't that confident, but I felt like I I felt like we could get into the third or fourth inning of game one at least before they realized that they probably could play with us. And by then, hopefully, we're up a few runs. And you know, if you win the first one, you got a good chance in the second one. But it was the sense of expectation. And you know, we told our kids what the year we in the well four. We finished fourth. Were you Josh? Are you with us?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

That was the year before I came.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:42

Okay. But we we finished fourth, and that's year we had to beat, we had to beat Edwin and had to beat Hooch in the finals, in the final game. But it we finished fourth, and I mean we tell our kids we went up, we beat Walt. Walt was in another region that year. We went over and beat Walton in the in the I think we beat them in the first round. Wall was one seat. We were four. We went over and beat Evans. We beat, we beat up, we beat those guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

We went down to Lee County and beat them. And what we sold our kids on was let me tell you something, boys, you still got last from the front of New Jersey. Right. And that other team, that other dugout, knows that. You know, and there's a certain respect and a certain quality of that that that's gonna at least give us a fighting chance. We beat three good teams to get us in, and then and then Milton finally knocked us out in the in the uh Milton beat us twice in the regular season and then beat us in the semis. And they ended up winning it. Yeah, they had on the uh place for the uh Dexter Fowler, right? Dexter. I don't know who's Lamborghini. He's had a nice career. But but just to I think answer your question in a very broad sense of expectation about your program that there's a confidence level to it, and that that you know, like I said, that I'd like to think that last year on front of sure jerseys over there still means something, but I know it did the time I was there. Yeah, you know, at least that that glory days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

Well, coach, this has been good. Thanks for sharing uh a lot of wisdom, a lot of experience, and lessons you learned through uh a long coaching career, a very successful coaching career. Uh I I enjoy reliving some of the stories. I I think uh uh we can all learn leadership lessons through stories of coaches. So uh thanks for sharing that with us. We're gonna uh jump into our two-minute drill and learn a little bit more about you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

So let's ramble too bad for y'all. I know I've been all over the place. Good. That's all good. Uh Don Josh tells me you're a good editor, so maybe make me sound like a like a giant.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:53

We'll do. All right, coach. We're gonna hit you with some rapid-fire questions. We want you just to tell us the first thing that comes to mind, okay? What was the first job you ever had ever in your life?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:04

Worked at a gas station. A buddy of mine, uh, his dad owned a full full service gas station on the in Clinton on the west side of Clinton. It was a standard uh oil, standard uh chevron. And we we worked, you know, squirting, you know, back in the old days, you build yeah, you feel you check their oil and fill it up with gay. They'd pull up and get full service, and you know, we'd we'd clean their windows and and check oil and get them gas. That was my first, that was my first job. I was probably about 15 years old.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:38

That's good. How would your 10-year-old self react to what you do now?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:43

Oh, I'm playing in the dirt, man. And I and I my dad started us working ball fields when we were young, and I I I've really come full circle. My dad would work during the day, but but he he ran all the leagues in our little town. And and during the day, we had to line the fields off and drag them and get the fields ready for for, you know, we played in the afternoon, late afternoon, and night back then. And we we got the little league field ready, and the and we called it back then pony league, dick to uh Bay Roof League. So we did we did the fields, we mowed grass and all that stuff. So I've really have come full circle.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:22

I've always worked on fields outdoor. All right, now make a decision here white shoes or black shoes? Black.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

No question. My college baseball coach was a white shoes guy. I tried to wear them, couldn't wear them, and I said it sounds crazy, but I just can't play with white shoes on and let me wear black shoes.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

That's good. Uh if you could eat only one food for the rest of your life, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:51

Uh either spaghetti or pizza. What is the career highlight you're most proud of?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:58

You know, probably the thing that, and I don't know if it's my career, you know, the thing I'm probably the most proud of I've ever done was I ran a marathon in 1986. Okay. That that was something I had to train. I ran over 800 miles over a three or four month period of time, and just the dedication and the just the stick to this of that, and I had four or five running partners, and we counted on each other to be there. And and I I I mean, I ran I was sub four hours.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

Yeah, it's awesome. So uh, but that was 86. That's good. What's the best career decision you've ever made? Uh going to Auburn.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:38

You know, I became happy with being away from Mississippi, and Mississippi's still my home, but you know, Auburn was a good decision and it got me to Atlanta. And you know, I I I really started becoming an adult and I was 27, 28 years old.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:53

So as an old kid. What is the one thing on your bucket list that you haven't attempted yet?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

Probably to see the Grand Canyon. There's some other places in the country I want to see, but the Grand Canyon is something I really would. I've been to I I went to Yellowstone several years ago, but but I'd really like to see the Grand Canyon in in person.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

Yeah, I can't wait to hear this answer because I think this is way out of the book, uh way out of the box for you. If you could have a superpower, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:31

I I don't know if it'd be a superpower. I'd I'd like to be able to speed read. I don't know if that's a me too. It's not like flying or anything. I don't I wouldn't really That's good. Does that I'd like to read faster? I'd like to be able to I'd like to be able to read a book in a couple of days instead of taking me a month.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:53

Yeah, there you go. What wins baseball games? Pitching or hitting? Hitting.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

What's your biggest pet peeve? Sunglasses on the hat or white shoes? Or are pants rolled up?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

Sunglasses on the hat was that that one just I never I just didn't get that. What what job would you be terrible at? No, a lot of them. Uh nurse, doctor.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

That's good. What is something that takes up too much of your time?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:30

Uh watching TV. What is the best single day on the calendar? Oren, Alabama football game. There you go. All right, coach. If the 1999 and 2006 Lasseter Trojan baseball teams both walk into a room, but only one of them can come out. Okay. So both of them were state champions. You got one that was a national champion, uh, a lot of talented and gritty players on them. But if both of those teams went in and only one of them can come out, who's coming out?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

Oh, the two state champion teams? Oh, 99. I mean, I didn't no disrespect to 06. That team probably overachieved a little bit, and they were but that that 99 team, we had I mean, we had something like 25 Division I we had division one players sitting on the bench. The hardest thing about coaching that team was keeping them all happy. Yeah, getting them in, yeah. I mean, we we we had 22 guys that could play. I mean, could really play. That was that was a managerial that was that was magic keeping and having all those guys clue. That that team was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

All right, coach. Uh, we always finish with the same question, kind of our trademark question. Today, Coach Mickey McMurchy, you've been hanging with the AD. If you could hang out with anyone, who would that be and why?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:55

God, man, that's a good question. We have to be a liver. No, sir.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:02

Anybody you want.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

Who would you who would you hang out with?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:08

I yeah, I don't know. You won't put me on the spot now. I I thought you were gonna say Bear Bryant.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:13

No, no. I I couldn't do that being an Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

Well, I know, but I uh he I I knew I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:19

I mean, I'm not a Bama basher at all, but I still Alabama plays the way you're supposed to play, man. You know, there are days I wish we played more like Alabama. Um I thought I thought you would either say Bear Bryant or someone on the government side, John Marshall or you know, I thought about maybe Earl Warren, John Marshall, uh, you know, but then I then I turned my thoughts to um you know David Letterman, Jerry Seinfeld, okay, Bill Maher. But I'm not, I'm not, like I said, I'm not even sure of that. I'd I I'd have to think about nobody in current government really.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

Right. I didn't know if there's an old Mississippi government guy that statesman that you no, I I I mean, I that's a good, I mean, that's a good, good, good question.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:08

I just uh Don, who would you hang out with? I'd hang out with Lincoln, to be honest with you. Actually, I said that when Josh and I interviewed each other. That was that was who I said. Why? He just fascinates me to be able to, you know, be obsessed with wanting to leave his mark on the world regardless of his circumstances.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

And he held things together again. It would have been easy to let go. I mean, he he without him, it's probably two countries even today.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:36

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

I mean, I I think he held it together, which which I mean he he he could have he'd have been a lot better off not to have done it. Sure, yeah. And to have that toughness to to and the the singular aspect of thought that that was the best thing was was when everybody was telling him it probably wasn't. Right. That that that's a good, I mean, that's a good your logic is good, is what I like. The other guy you've already mentioned it's not so much the the person, it's your logic for why.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:11

The other guy you've already mentioned uh uh the story you got to hold a door for him at UCLA was John Wooden. I thought you might say spent some time with him.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:20

You know, I did that that's an unbelievable story that I that uh Roger, Roger, Roger Burchett was with me, and Roger missed it. I said, Yeah, it's best coaching. I said, I do a coach. And I mean, we just were out there tooling around, Don, at UCLA, my buddy and I. We were out there for the ABCA, and we were gonna go just visit UCLA, and we went to the bookstore, and the UCLA was playing at Pauley Pavilion, which I don't fit on UCLA's campus, you know, just right across the walk, you know, the main walkway from center campus. And Coach Wooden was in the book, he was going out of the bookstore. Really? Roger were going in.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:57

Yeah, that's my that's one of my brushes with fame. Coach, thank you so much for the privilege of your time today. I know that I speak for Josh and our listeners when I say that you have dropped some knowledge on us here today, and we're gonna be able to take that back, implement it into our programs, and for that, we're very grateful. So thanks again for your time.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

Thank you. You guys are kind to have me, and I I appreciate it. Thanks, Coach. Hi, buddy. Thanks, Josh.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:19

First, I must say it was probably very obvious, but Coach Mickey McMurtry holds a special place in my heart and with my entire family. We all want to be challenged to reach our greatest heights in every aspect of life. And that is what I and others on our team at Laster received coaching alongside Coach Mick. It is our hope that through today's conversation you are able to define the rules that you lead by, implement them into your vision, and serve others in their quest to be great. We heard the word logic a lot in today's conversation. Logic comes through constantly asking the question, why? Do you ask why often? It's the key question that elevates the greats to the level of elite. Coach Mick, he asks it every day to his kids in American government class, his baseball players, and us as his assistant coaches. It is the backbone of the elite success his program achieved. Coach Mick, thanks for sharing your secrets to success and challenging us as leaders to be humble, to motivate others, and to inspire those that we lead. I believe it is safe to say that you took us to a different level of thinking today. And leaders, remember rule number one, resist the urge to coach. What did you think of today's episode? Are you enjoying this podcast? Let us know with a simple review there in the podcast platform you're listening from or through social media, Twitter or Instagram, at hangin' with the AD. And as always, until next time, we thank you for spending your time hanging with EAD.